Dominique Wilkins: Kobe Bryant in his prime better all around player than Lebron

[bizil]

You keep forgetting that Lebron has done nothing without having 2 all stars in his team. Absolutely nothing. For all of Kobe's 5 rings, all he's had is another all star center.

What's your point? He made the NBA Finals taking Cleveland there back in the day. And he beat the Detroit Pistons, arguably the best Eastern Conference team of the decade resume wise. That's no small feat. And let's face it, that Cleveland team really had no business in that position. But Bron was so great, HE WILLED THEM THERE!! That team had NO OTHER consistent All Star kind of talent.

And u talk about ALL Kobe had was another All Star center! LMAO Well that Shaq is one of the top 7-8 GOAT players of all time. And the MOST PHYSICALLY DOMINANT PLAYER EVER! Peak value wise, the Shaq-Kobe combo could be the best combo of all time peak value wise. How dare u say all Kobe had was another All Star center. **** that, Shaq is an immortal icon who changed basketball. And Shaq was the MAN on those Lakers teams, not Kobe. Sure Kobe was an alpha dog and 1B. But Shaq at his peak is arguably the best center of all time peak value wise! Shaq and Kobe is closest thing we have seen to having Wilt and MJ on the same team. Hell, I would rather have a Shaq-Kobe pairing than a Bron-Wade-Bosh trio! LOL That's how dominant Shaq-Kobe were!

[ripthekik]

What's your point? He made the NBA Finals taking Cleveland there back in the day. And he beat the Detroit Pistons, arguably the best Eastern Conference team of the decade resume wise. That's no small feat. And let's face it, that Cleveland team really had no business in that position. But Bron was so great, HE WILLED THEM THERE!! That team had NO OTHER consistent All Star kind of talent.

And u talk about ALL Kobe had was another All Star center! LMAO Well that Shaq is one of the top 7-8 GOAT players of all time. And the MOST PHYSICALLY DOMINANT PLAYER EVER! Peak value wise, the Shaq-Kobe combo could be the best combo of all time peak value wise. How dare u say all Kobe had was another All Star center. **** that, Shaq is an immortal icon who changed basketball. And Shaq was the MAN on those Lakers teams, not Kobe. Sure Kobe was an alpha dog and 1B. But Shaq at his peak is arguably the best center of all time peak value wise! Shaq and Kobe is closest thing we have seen to having Wilt and MJ on the same team. Hell, I would rather have a Shaq-Kobe pairing than a Bron-Wade-Bosh trio! LOL That's how dominant Shaq-Kobe were!

For your first paragraph, my point is that all that translated to 0 rings.

For your second paragraph, did you forget that he won 2 rings with Pau Gasol? Is Pau Gasol another all time dominant great that you will write another paragraph about?

Think about it. Another all star center is all Kobe needed. Lebron needed an all star starting Guard and PF/C.

[TheCorporation]

For your first paragraph, my point is that all that translated to 0 rings.

For your second paragraph, did you forget that he won 2 rings with Pau Gasol? Is Pau Gasol another all time dominant great that you will write another paragraph about?

Think about it. Another all star center is all Kobe needed. Lebron needed an all star starting Guard and PF/C.

Without internet searching in detail, wasn't Pau putting up 20 and 10 on 50%? LeBron has never had a player that was able to put up those numbers. And don't forget Lamar Odom, and flashes of Bynum. Kobe had a good team, that's why he won. Just like every champion had a good team. Just like LeBron has a good team. etc.

[bizil]

For your first paragraph, my point is that all that translated to 0 rings.

For your second paragraph, did you forget that he won 2 rings with Pau Gasol? Is Pau Gasol another all time dominant great that you will write another paragraph about?

Think about it. Another all star center is all Kobe needed. Lebron needed an all star starting Guard and PF/C.

If u put Lebron with Dirk in Dallas, he would get a ring. U wouldn't need much at all with that combo. And to top it off, Dirk isn't even a back to the basket dominant big. Lebron had teams in Cleveland that weren't simply capable of winning a ring. If u put Kobe in Lebron's place the results would have been the same. Which IS NO RING!!

Lebron could win with just AN ALL STAR CENTER too! What the hell are u trying to say? And to top it off, Lebron is a pass first guy who can still get u 30 night. Which means a guy like a Shaq would be enhanced even more with Bron than he would with Kobe. If Lebron is in place of Kobe on those rings, the Lakers win a minimum of six rings EASY! Shaq would have stayed in LA UNTIL he retired with Lebron there. Shaq wanted out of LA because he and Kobe couldn't get along. I've heard both Kobe and Shaq say that shit. And they say they both regret it looking back.

So what the hell is your point in these posts? Are u trying to say that Magic couldn't win without four other HOFers. Becasue that's what he had with Kareem, Worthy, Wilkes and McAdoo. Plus Magic also played with another all star guard in Norm Nixon. U mean to tell me Bird couldn't win without four other HOFers? Because that's what he had with Parish, McHale, DJ, and Walton. Plus another All-Star in Ainge? Bron is on the same level of Magic and Bird flat out. So if u are saying this shit about Lebron, u better say that about basically half or more of the NBA 50 greatest list. Because many of those guys had the fortune of playing for mastermind coaches and GM's WHOSE JOB is to put the best team on the floor. U can't penalize those guys for trying to stack the deck and construct teams to win. That's the name of the game.

And frankly, man for man, teams like Indiana have more depth 1-12 than Miami does. Miami NEVER was the deepest team in the L. They were just top heavy as hell with two HOFers and a multiple time All Star. In the annual of NBA champs, there have been SEVERAL TEAMS DEEPER THAN THE MIAMI HEAT!! So if u are knocking Bron, u better knock Magic, Bird, Dr.J, Moses, Kareem, Wilt, West, and many immortal kind of guys!! The name of the game is to construct the best team to win!!

[dajadeed]

Kobe had a 4 game stretch in which he scored 60 twice.

The other two games were 50 point games.



And don't say chucker. Anyone who characterizes Kobe as a "chucker" just doesn't know basketball. Chuckers don't win. Karl Malone used to sing Kobe's praises before the hunting Mexican girls incident. Said his bball iq was off the charts.

Fwiw, scoring is the best way to make an impact and take over a game. Going out there and having 20 point quarters to put teams away was something routine for Kobe.

I'll never forget watching the 61 at MSG. I've never seen a player have opposing arenas give him standing ovations and completely turn on the home team like Kobe.

[TheCorporation]

Here comes another ether, rip. You made me do it. You keep bringing up how LBJ had "2 all stars." Well, here you go.

Pau Gasol during the playoffs to help Kobe win a ring

2009: 18-11 on 58%! with 2 blocks
2010: 20-11 on 54% with 2 blocks

Is that not an amazing second option? 20-11 on 54% with 2 blocks during the playoffs. I can't even think of that many players that can average that (as a second option).

The point is simple. Every Finals MVP needed help to get there. Had the Spur won game 6, and they gave the Finals MVP to Duncan/Parker, would the other guy that didn't win get a lot of praise as well? What about Danny Green and all those 3s he splashed in, Leonard, etc. TEAMS win ships, not individuals.

And, now that you got me digging into this even more, is Lamar Odom not close to equal that of Chris Bosh?

Lamar Odom PO:
2009: 12-9 on 52%
2010: 10-9 on 47%

Chris Bosh PO:
2012: 14-8 on 49%
2013: 12-7 on 46%


...



So can we stop with the bullshit "LeBron had 2 all-stars" stuff? I dont' think you're a troll, just misinformed.

Clearly Wade's help was much less than Gasol's. And Odom's help was equal to Bosh's help in the playoffs.

[bizil]

Without internet searching in detail, wasn't Pau putting up 20 and 10 on 50%? LeBron has never had a player that was able to put up those numbers. And don't forget Lamar Odom, and flashes of Bynum. Kobe had a good team, that's why he won. Just like every champion had a good team. Just like LeBron has a good team. etc.

Exactly right! Lebron has NEVER played with a dominant low post big man. Bosh is awesome, but he's more of a faceup PF. Shaq is the most dominant big man of all time on the block. Pau is one of the top 10 most skilled PF's on the block of all time. And Pau is a great passing big man who can also faceup midrange wise and kill u. Bron never played with these kind of big men. And as u pointed out, Kobe has had the luxury of guys who were ALL regarded as amongst the best bigs on the block. ANd u can't forget Odom like u said, one of the most versatile players of all time. And u can't forget Glen Rice a three time all star and stretched the floor for the Lakers at the peak of his career. Rice was still lighting shit up big time and settled in to be the third option to play sniper (kind of like what Ray did later for Boston) for a ring. As a whole Kobe had WAY MORE HELP over his career than Bron did. Bron just started getting real help when he went to Miami.

[ripthekik]

Exactly, my point was that Kobe had 1 great all star teammate (which I acknowledged). Bynum? Please, look at his stats. 7 pts 5 reb is great? Odom? Please.

I'm not just spitting out random things.. the 2 all stars is a FACT. Bosh and Wade were both all stars for the last two years and beyond, and in fact last year as Heats, they were all star starters. Those are absolute FACTS. Meanwhile Pau is the only all star Kobe has had in the 2peat and he wasn't even a starter!

Who cares about the stats they (Bosh) put up? I always go back to the same example. In the Dream Team, would MJ, Barkley, Bird still put up their NBA stats? You don't think their stats would drop? Is it because they are playing at a lower level? Please.

[bizil]

Exactly, my point was that Kobe had 1 great all star teammate (which I acknowledged). Bynum? Please, look at his stats. 7 pts 5 reb is great? Odom? Please.

I'm not just spitting out random things.. the 2 all stars is a FACT. Bosh and Wade were both all stars for the last two years and beyond, and in fact last year as Heats, they were all star starters. Those are absolute FACTS. Meanwhile Pau is the only all star Kobe has had in the 2peat and he wasn't even a starter!

Who cares about the stats they (Bosh) put up? I always go back to the same example. In the Dream Team, would MJ, Barkley, Bird still put up their NBA stats? You don't think their stats would drop? Is it because they are playing at a lower level? Please.

You're lost big time! Before Bron went to Miami, who had the better supporting cast throughout there careers. EASILY KOBE! Bron saw all those teams out there with multiple all stars and knew he had to go somewhere to compete against them. Bron can turn chicken shit into chicken salad, he proved that earlier in his career long ago. The man did all he could do in Cleveland. And Pau is a beast at his best. Bron never played with a big close to Pau before he went to Miami. Like I said if u r gonna penalize Bron, u gotta penalize Bird and Magic too. Bird and Magic had teams WAY more stacked than Miami. Those guys had 4-5 HOFers on their teams, not just All Stars. Miami just has two for sure HOFers, Bron and Wade. Bosh has an outside shot I think. But even at that, that's LESS than the HOF talent Bird and Magic had in their arsenal. Give it up man, u fighting a losing battle with your posts!!

[kawhileonard2]

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/49529

Another day, another legend that recognizes Kobe over Lebron. Nothing new.

Agreed!

[ImKobe]

Agreed!

The real ones know.

[SouBeachTalents]

Dominique Wilkins is wrong

[HylianNightmare]

Lenotthatgood