Cuban - Fears playing out in Brooklyn.

[R.I.P.]

The Mavs were weak champs.

LOL. Sure. They only beat Aldridge, Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, LeBron, Wade and Bosh.

He was a free agent. You don't get assets for non-superstar unrestricted free agents. Either you outbid everyone for them or you don't. But if you do there's little chance that teams which passed up paying that much for him when they didn't have to give up assets to get him will suddenly happily pay that much when they do have give up assets in a trade.

He wanted to stay.

[DMAVS41]

He'd only be a trade chip if he was on a marketable contract (and was healthy enough). Now as it has transpired, he's been mainly healthy, has aged well and has provided above average value on his contract thus far (though like most NBA salaries its going up, whilst he's getting older). None of the above were guarantees though. Injuries in particular had been a concern with Chandler.



Whether or not Deron is responsible for Brooklyn's problems this season and whether or not he provides good value on his contract (and I'd say yes, along with others and no he doesn't) Cuban's comments aren't about Deron. They are about committing to paying high luxury tax (and losing flexibility) in the new CBA.

The Mavs were weak champs. Even in your own terms they "may have had the chance to compete for a finals birth". There's four hedges right there (may, chance to, compete for and finals birth) and that's a long way from saying "they had a strong chance to defend their title".



Agree with the sentiment, disagree with the Chandler bashing. He has averaged a double double in NY, so unless you're punishing him based on 107 minutes so far this season (tiny sample size and ignoring his D and shooting efficiency). Chandler has provided what I suspect is above average value on his contract, at least so far.


He was a free agent. You don't get assets for non-superstar unrestricted free agents. Either you outbid everyone for them or you don't. But if you do there's little chance that teams which passed up paying that much for him when they didn't have to give up assets to get him will suddenly happily pay that much when they do have give up assets in a trade.

Why judge Chandler on his regular seasons? All that matters is playoffs anyway for a team looking to win the title.

Chandler in the playoffs since he left the Mavs;

6/8/1 11.4 PER average over 2 years

And he's often injured as well. Look...I like Chandler. I wish he had stayed, but just not at that price. You can't win a title in this CBA with Dirk, Marion, Terry, and Chandler eating up like 50 million a year for multiple years.

Not sure why that is hard for people to understand.

[DMAVS41]

LOL. Sure. They only beat Aldridge, Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, LeBron, Wade and Bosh.



He wanted to stay.

He's talking about the talent level of the Mavs being weak. As a team they were not weak. But he's right...and what he means is that the likelihood of repeating was slim at best. And he's dead on. They had win a ton of close games in the playoffs in 11...all while everyone was playing out of their minds.

It's just not likely repeatable at all.

Chandler wanted to stay, but his desire for money trumped that. This was a dude that nobody in the league even wanted. Like...nobody wanted him in 11. Nobody. He was a cast off....irrelevant.

He then puts up 10/9/0 in the regular season and 8/9/0 in the playoffs...and he scoffs at a 1 year 20 million dollar deal? So don't give me any "wanted to stay" bullshit. I don't blame Chandler for leaving, he should take the money and run, because deep down he and his agent knew he'd likely come back down to earth. Funny thing is....he would have ended up making a ton more money if he had stayed that 1 more year with Dallas. He would have made the 20 million in 12 and then signed a 4 year 60 million dollar deal after that for sure.

So don't give me this crap about Chandler wanting to stay...I'm sure he did, but he wanted his money more...and rightfully so.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He dodged a bullet with Dwill. Although who knows how he could've done with a coach like Carlysle.

[DMAVS41]

He dodged a bullet with Dwill. Although who knows how he could've done with a coach like Carlysle.

Yea...who knows. I just doubt Williams could ever have been more valuable than having Calderon and Ellis. Because Ellis and Calderon make about what Dwill makes. So we got really lucky on that...

We just have to figure out a way to make this thing a contender next year.

I think a guy like Deng at SF and Asik at Center makes this team a legit contender if healthy. Just not sure how we get that done.

[Owl]

LOL. Sure. They only beat Aldridge, Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, LeBron, Wade and Bosh.

Sure, because you measure how good a champion is, not by their regular season performance (Record, SRS etc), not by their playoff performance (MOV, sweeping versus seven games series etc) but by how good their playoff opponents best players are. Never mind that that means teams that have bad regular seasons are rewarded for having low seedings. So I guess the '58 Hawks are the greatest team ever they went through Russell (Hawks only 1-1 in games without Russell, they won the series and HCA with Russell in play), Heinsohn, Ramsey, Sharman, Cousy, Sam Jones, Andy Phillip, George Yardley and Harry Gallatin.

Or maybe the '78 Bullets, they "beat" (because teams do defeat individual players, not other teams): John Drew, George Gervin, Billy Paultz, Larry Kenon, James Silas, Julius Erving, George McGinnis, Doug Collins, World B Free, Gus Williams, Freddie Brown, Dennis Johnson, Jack Sikma and Paul Silas.

You can name good players on every route to the finals, more on those teams who did poorly during the regular season. But fine I'll bear in mind that you consider the Mavs one of the all time great champions.

He wanted to stay.

Not enough to do so. He got an offer from Dallas. If he was that eager to stay he would have. Indeed given you are advocating "getting something" for him and Chandler would have been aware of the possibility of being traded which is probably why he wisely took the long term money, rather than deciding based on location. So (as I said) Dallas would have had to beat or at least match the market offers.

[Owl]

Why judge Chandler on his regular seasons? All that matters is playoffs anyway for a team looking to win the title.

Chandler in the playoffs since he left the Mavs;

6/8/1 11.4 PER average over 2 years

And he's often injured as well. Look...I like Chandler. I wish he had stayed, but just not at that price. You can't win a title in this CBA with Dirk, Marion, Terry, and Chandler eating up like 50 million a year for multiple years.

Not sure why that is hard for people to understand.

Because regular seasons are a large sample over a balanced schedule which give you a good indicator of a players performance level, whilst a couple of short playoff runs will be more influenced by matchups, injuries, scouting and luck.

You could decide that '83 and '84 Julius Erving was an average player based on his playoffs.

Even if you hypothetically only did care about playoff performance (and not getting homecourt for the playoffs), regular season performance would be a better predictor of what a player would be likely to do.

So again, I think you're too harsh on Chandler. Does that mean Dallas should have flung money at an aging core? No. It would have been easy to do. Cuban wouldn't have been criticised for keeping together a championship core, even if it meant paying substantial money for on guys like Butler who isn't a rotation level player but is getting $8m for this year. Cuban made a bold move. It hasn't paid off as hoped, but Dallas is in a better position than it might have been.

[Duderonomy]

well at least Paul is off the books next season, Garnett could be a trade chip as well.

[DMAVS41]

Because regular seasons are a large sample over a balanced schedule which give you a good indicator of a players performance level, whilst a couple of short playoff runs will be more influenced by matchups, injuries, scouting and luck.

You could decide that '83 and '84 Julius Erving was an average player based on his playoffs.

Even if you hypothetically only did care about playoff performance (and not getting homecourt for the playoffs), regular season performance would be a better predictor of what a player would be likely to do.

So again, I think you're too harsh on Chandler. Does that mean Dallas should have flung money at an aging core? No. It would have been easy to do. Cuban wouldn't have been criticised for keeping together a championship core, even if it meant paying substantial money for on guys like Butler who isn't a rotation level player but is getting $8m for this year. Cuban made a bold move. It hasn't paid off as hoped, but Dallas is in a better position than it might have been.

That's kind of my point though. Chandler gets hurt a lot... And relies a ton on pg play. And you don't want a player reliant on others to be impactful eating up 15 million a year.

But we more or less agree on that...