Kblazes long boring post on defense.

[Micku]

[QUOTE=andgar923]More of a post defender.

Honestly I don

[97 bulls]

This is a really great post. It should be an article somewhere on ESPN or something.

I would think that KG, Pippen, and Duncan really fit most of those categories. Michael Jordan as well. I think MJ fits about 8 of those categories, especially the passing lanes. People never really mention it, but he is third all time on steals behind Kidd and Stockton, and he played less seasons than them. He may be the best at intercepting the passing lanes. Though he also have very quick hands and could steal the ball right from under you too.

But in terms of man to man defense, versatility,and impact the best I ever saw was Pippen on Mark Jackson in the playoffs of 1998. He was horrible at scoring, just like everyone was in that series except for Michael Jordan. But Pippen won that game 1 for them with is defense. Probably the MVP on the floor who couldn't even make a shot. Mark Jackson struggled to get it up the court with Pippen on him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhSBTI-txak#t=06m38s

There aren't many highlights of Pippen defense on him, so you would have to watch the game yourself. But only was his defense on him was amazing, but the help defense was perfect. Mark Jackson struggled to get the ball up, tried to pass it, and when he tried to get the ball back. And you'll see MJ intercepting the passing lanes too. Great defense. One of the best perimeter defense I ever seen in a basketball game.

I agree. Scottie Pippen had some of the most memorable defensive efforts vs players. And not just a play or two. He literally owned that player. Penny Hardaway in 96, John Stockton in 98, Magic in 91. He literally had these guys visibly flustered to the point that id give those games as much credit as a 50pt game.

[I<3NBA]

goddamn Kblaze. this should be an ISH insider request. now go and sell this to some sports website (that will actually pay you)

[Pointguard]

[QUOTE=andgar923]I may be in the minority, but I believe KG will go down as the best defender of all time.

Still can

[andgar923]

I would agree with you if KG had a defensive minded coach closer to his prime. His main team strengths were leadership, inspiration and being the best communicator I think ever played. I went to a Celtics game in 08 at near court level and was astonished at how amped and verbal they were on defense. Its definitely going to be the future of the game. Their close outs were like a living single celled organism.

What was amazing was that these guys were not natural or habitual defensive guys that KG had moving, nor were they used to the sets when I saw them. If KG had defensive pieces and a defensive coach in his prime I think he would have the title of defensive King. Communication with energy behind it will trump all other defensive arrangements in the future of the game. KG's influence in this regard will transcend all the others as you rarely hear anybody say they want to play defense like _________. I think most Bigs play the Wilt prototype defense.

Nor can anyone say that they played a smarter defense as he made great decisions (he knew plays very well) and aggressively killed pick and rolls as good as anybody.

I never saw Russell play.

But I

[KevinNYC]

Great, well thought out post.

However, should intelligence and anticipation be part of your 11? Or do those play into the 11? I thought of that Bill Russell article and how smart he was about defense.

Also the Bobby Jones photo made me think about Bird. Folks who didn't get to see the younger Larry Bird play have because convinced he was some defensive liability, when he actually had big defensive impact because how well he could anticipate plays and how quickly he would react to where the ball was goinn. He's not a Pippen or a Garnett where he could defend multiple guys, but he always seemed to be making plays, especially off the ball.

[Jailblazers7]

#3 is why I don't understand how people say Kevin Love is a terrible defender. He gets 11 defensive rebounds a game. All the has to do is play solids positional defense to be at least an average defender with those type of rebounding numbers

[ZenMaster]

You tied it in with your point on leadership, but I think communication is something all good defenders should be good at. They can't all have the leadership abilites but if you want to play good defense you should be talking a lot of the time.

Coaching young guys the single hardest part is to get them to talk and communicate with each other, I get it, they play games in what's basically underwear and they have to yell stuff out that makes sense only to them, it's a mental barrier.

A while ago I read a Igoudala interview, he mentioned that on Lebrons chase down blocks he makes a call, a number or something to the defender closest to the ball and they will make a play on the guy so that he sidesteps and can't dunk, Lebron times it for that moment. I think that's pretty impressive.

Love the point about the battle ground voice, it's dead on.

[Kblaze8855]

Love is odd. The rare crazy rebounding 4 who somehow manages to play soft at times. He really doesnt seem to try very hard on that side of the ball outside of rebounding. But ive only seen him once this year.

[fpliii]

[Dr.J4ever]

Such a long post without mentioning this guy:

Exactly. Jones wasnt just a great defender. He was a great clutch defender. Always with the steal or block or charge at just the right time.

[Harison]

I may be in the minority, but I believe KG will go down as the best defender of all time.

I dont know about that, but KG certainly has an argument as the best defender of the Modern Era:

http://asubstituteforwar.wordpress.c...es-no-garnett/

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=308314

On Celtics it meant they had Top1 defense when he played, and by far the worst defense in NBA when he didnt (33 points allowed difference!). The way he communicates and holds everyone accountable is uncanny. Even star players who were never known for their defense were inspired to play D. How many All-time players can claim that? Russell, KG, and...?

[BallsOut]

And considering all of the above....(and anything you feel I left out)


Who would you rank as the best total defender ever and the best you have seen?


Is there any case against Bill Russell having all 11 qualities? I think the first time he played Neil Johnson(scoring leader at the time) he held him scoreless for like 40 minutes. He defended 1-5 if he had to. Does he lack any of the 11?


Far as people I saw a lot of....id say Pippen has the most of those qualities. Pippen or Rodman with KG a notch behind.

I think its fair to credit Pippen with 9 of those.

Not that just how many decides how great you are. Most small forwards only need #9 and perhaps #1. Pointguards don't really....need....any of them. And few have more than #1. And not many have even that.

So it varies by position.

It's between KG and Prime Ron Artest for me. Both those guys have all of the 10 qualities you mention because not only could they change a game defensively, they could do it and get the fans involved, lift their team emotionally (no offense to Duncan or Marion who were great also but just relatively quiet guys).

Ron in his prime, wouldn't give you an inch in the post, poke more balls out of players hands than cp3 after a dead whistle and later on in his career would give you an elbow to the head if all else failed.

KG early on in his career was a hybrid of Russell, grabbing balls out of the air instead of blocking them, and Gary Payton, hounding guards, talking psychological trash and later on in his career one of the best help defenders while still hounding guards and psychological talking trash albeit more bark than results, but the intimidation is still there.

A very underrated aspect of defense is the ability to mentally take in what the offensive player says to you, to try to get in your head. I remember the 2010 NBA Finals when Pierce was calling Ron a psycho, and how he was crazy. How did Ron respond? He didn't say a word, he locked down Pierce in that game where Pierce had prior quoted "We ain't goin back to LA" after grabbing a 2-1 lead on the Lakers.

[I<3NBA]

no one can get under the skin of opponents like Rodman can. combine that with his elite defending and i consider him to be the ultimate defender.

when you look back on it, that Bulls team with Rodman, Jordan, and Pippen were crazy good defensively. truly unfair for opposing teams.

[KevinNYC]

no one can get under the skin of opponents like Rodman can. combine that with his elite defending and i consider him to be the ultimate defender.

when you look back on it, that Bulls team with Rodman, Jordan, and Pippen were crazy good defensively. truly unfair for opposing teams.

Don't forget Ron Harper. In his early days he was an elite defender and was still good in his days with the Bulls.

So you had to bring the ball up against either Pippen, Jordan or Harper. Not fair is right.