Kblazes long boring post on defense.

[#number6ix#]

I think discipline is an important quality on defense... In order to follow through with the coach's vision, rotate properly,and not help 1 pass away displine is paramount...

[pauk]

Fun read as always Kblaze.



PS: I think you owned my "1500 word essay"?

[CavaliersFTW]

Fun read as always Kblaze.



PS: I think you owned my "1500 word essay"?

^ - well... yours was done irrationally in anger in response to Kobe straight up owning Lebron at an all star game. You "blamed" Kobe in a negative way for Lebron's failure to cope with his good defense. You made it seem like Kobe did a bad thing - when in fact Kobe stole the show that night and played a great game, Lebron just couldn't handle him that night. You proceeded to dump a mountain of text explaining why you felt Kobe's actions (playing good basketball...) were totally unjustifiable.

In short, your essay was a shortsighted irrational reaction mustered up by anger. Where as Kblaze has gifted us with a lengthy even keeled highly informative post.

[andgar923]

I may be in the minority, but I believe KG will go down as the best defender of all time.

Still can

[pauk]

And considering all of the above....(and anything you feel I left out)


Who would you rank as the best total defender ever and the best you have seen?


Is there any case against Bill Russell having all 11 qualities? I think the first time he played Neil Johnson(scoring leader at the time) he held him scoreless for like 40 minutes. He defended 1-5 if he had to. Does he lack any of the 11?


Far as people I saw a lot of....id say Pippen has the most of those qualities. Pippen or Rodman with KG a notch behind.

I think its fair to credit Pippen with 9 of those.

Not that just how many decides how great you are. Most small forwards only need #9 and perhaps #1. Pointguards don't really....need....any of them. And few have more than #1. And not many have even that.

So it varies by position.

Scottie Pippen, followed by Rodman and yes i have to say Lebron aswell.
I can think of many more complete defenders obviously if i excluded the versatility part, but i cant let that go as i think that is one extremly authorative facet of defense.... its just damn exciting to see a guy shut down anybody he wants....

Still cant believe Pippen didnt win DPOY....

[Kblaze8855]

Lebron is well rounded on defense but no more so than many others. Like shawn Marion. Ive seen him do a good job on both Tony Parker and Yao Ming for stretches. Not shut down.. But hold his own. Same for a guy like diaw who isnt even a great defender. Ive seen him guard 2 guards and centers in the same game.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Scottie Pippen, followed by Rodman and yes i have to say Lebron aswell.
I can think of many more complete defenders obviously if i excluded the versatility part, but i cant let that go as i think that is one extremly authorative facet of defense.... its just damn exciting to see a guy shut down anybody he wants....

Still cant believe Pippen didnt win DPOY....

LeBron is not a leader on defense like Pippen/KG though.

[Legends66NBA7]

I may be in the minority, but I believe KG will go down as the best defender of all time.

Still can’t think of a player that could (can) guard every position on the court as effectively as he can.

Hakeem Olajuwon ?

Or was he just more of a post defender ?

[andgar923]

Hakeem Olajuwon ?

Or was he just more of a post defender ?

More of a post defender.

Honestly I don

[IGOTGAME]

[QUOTE=andgar923]I may be in the minority, but I believe KG will go down as the best defender of all time.

Still can

[SCdac]

I miss low scoring, grind em out, tenacious defense kind of ball. Spurs/Pistons Finals is still my favorite of all time.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

5.

Intimidation. In more ways than just protecting the rim but...that comes first. Shaq didn't get dunked on in a straight up attacking manner more than twice in 18 years. Not because he was too quick to rotate. because people were shook of him. And if the other team wont attack you...you are effective even if you don't apply yourself as you could.

Then you have the guys who in some situations are so dangerous players fail just looking for them. We have all seen guys miss shots on the break with Lebron coming up behind them. Same with Prince. Bob Petitt said he once got his first two shots blocked by Russell then missed the next two looking for him. I respect that.

Perhaps my favorite example of it ever is the 01 ASG. Ive mentioned it before. Mcdyess gets the ball on the baseline nothing but Mutombo under the rim to stop him. This is a 6'9'' guy with a 40 inch vertical. Mutombo is just begging for him. Waving him in. Like he cant WAIT to reject this dude. And he passes it off instead.

You cant put a price on that.

This was pretty funny from earlier this year:

[Harison]

Good read

IMHO Russell is the GOAT defender, he is on Top or near in every single category. No shortcoming, always driven. Also the prototype of defensive quaterback.

After him there is a solid group of elite defenders, with certain strengths and weaknesses.

Lets take Hakeem, definitely up there with Rus, DRob or motivated Wilt, but he wasnt quaterback per se, neither was Wilt, Kareem, DRob or Rodman. Each were spectacular defenders individually, but they didnt ran the defense like elite guards run offense (i.e. what Rus and KG do).

IMO orchestrating team defense is as important as being elite individually. Sum is more than its parts, one player simply cant cover everything, as great as they are.

[chips93]

when im watching defense, im more watching for mistakes, at what point does the defense crack, and who's fault is it, and then can his teammates make up for it.

the way offenses work today, i mostly look at, can a perimeter player fight over a screen (on or off the ball), in a pick and roll, can the defensive big man stop the guard getting into the paint, does the defensive guard recover after getting picked, and can the defensive big recover back to his original man.

if there is some breakdown there, are the other 3 defensive players alert, and do they rotate in time, and to the correct players.

i guess i mostly look for what players do poorly on defense, rather than what they do well. so i am probably a bit harsh, when judging guys on defense, because i mostly think of their weaknesses.

[Pointguard]

Not that just how many decides how great you are. Most small forwards only need #9 and perhaps #1. Pointguards don't really....need....any of them. And few have more than #1. And not many have even that.

So it varies by position.

Great posts.

I was discussing PG duties as it relates to defense in another thread. Its covered in part under your number 10. Change the opponents approach to the game.

The control of the clock is something that's very much in the Point Guard's hands. Included in that is stopping the other team from running, along with delaying the initiation of the offense if they can. It doesn't seem like much but it is key playing the game on your own terms. As in football, controlling the clock allows for lesser talented teams to beat super talented teams (Tony Parker and Kidd were masters of this) and its one of the main reasons why Miami lost to one and was just about to lose to the other. There is always a pressure building in another team when they aren't in their comfort zone in terms of playing ball their way.

Even Lebron doesn't like to play at somebody else's pace. You mess up a team's timing, it messes with their cohesion and even trust if you apply pressure with it. To me, its the main reason why young teams have trouble in the playoffs, as older teams can settle down easier and are more likely to say this is going down my way. Only tight organization can battle it, notice as Popovich, runs his operation in a military clockwork, and its why SA is always in the thick of things. Its also why SA only wanted Kidd in their PG pursuits. When I coach, I notice pacing/pressure effects on different age groups.

It was also the underlying story of when Detroit beat the Lakers as well as Billups was masterful.