The Crazy idea that Sir Charles Barkley didn't have help

[guy]

Aside from his weight and conditioning, I wonder how much physical play had to do with his decline.

Chuck played in a very physical era in the most physical spot on the court, agasint bigger players. I'm sure that played a significant role in his decline. Other players at his position were taller, so the decline may not have been as noticeable. Chuck's game was unique than other front court player's game, he relied on athleticism to be consistent. He wasn't being guarded by players his same height as Wade would.

Who knows. No way you can really tell. I can't just assume he would still age as well though.

[guy]

Well Barkley coulda won in '99 and '04 in addition to the threepeat so that's potentially 5 rings. I think they'd have the best team in the league in '99 and '04 so it's a decent chance. Shaq-Kobe feud doesn't happen so who knows if Shaq stays. Also, he was declining in '95 but the lack of big and rule change might have helped him a ton.

I was lining up with 1985-2000 Barkley in place of Kobe on the 1998-2013 Lakers. So 1986 Barkley in 99? Spurs were a really great team at the time, and I wouldn't count on them losing especially since this was before Phil. I don't think 86 Barkley is that much better then 99 to change that series from a sweep to a win. 1991 Barkley in 04? Possibly. Lakers had injuries though and Pistons were really great, so I'm just assuming they won't. Its definitely possible though. I definitely believe 87-89 Barkley wins those 3 titles with Shaq from 00-02.

[andgar923]

Who knows. No way you can really tell. I can't just assume he would still age as well though.

In the argument of eras, I always mention that today's players are far superior at conditioning and training. On top of that they have benefit from superior science and technology. Along with a less physical era, I'm sure that Chuck will age better.

[magnax1]

If you switched out Kobe and Barkley, Barkley would probably win but I bet Kobe does too, depending on what years of his career you put him in. If you replace 21 year old barkley with 21 yo kobe you have a good chance of getting titles in philly in 85 and 86. Also I think Kobe has a really good shot with that stacked 93 team since hed be right around his peak. That team was a lot more talented than the bulls and Kobe probably would be a big help on D.

[PHILA]

Bean, in HIS peak, was an exceptional 2-way player and probably the better all-around player if we're talking pure basketball skills.

He is a better streak scorer and spot up shooter. He has a big advantage in terms of jump shooting period, but Barkley has the edge in passing (especially out of double teams), interior/post scoring, offensive/defensive rebounding, transition/fastbreaks, cutting to the basket, isolation play, drawing fouls (he drew fouls at a higher rate than Shaq), plus he was better at reading the defense. I don't know what you mean by skills, but if you are referring to his moves I will take Barkley as a scorer primarily because he was able to get good shots for himself. I prefer his power game down low over Kobe's spin in place move and 3-4 ineffective pump fakes followed by a contested 20 foot fadeaway.

[bdreason]

I've never heard anyone claim Barkley didn't have any help. You don't make the NBA Finals without help.

[andgar923]

He is a better streak scorer and spot up shooter. He has a big advantage in terms of jump shooting period, but Barkley has the edge in passing (especially out of double teams), interior/post scoring, offensive/defensive rebounding, transition/fastbreaks, cutting to the basket, isolation play, drawing fouls (he drew fouls at a higher rate than Shaq), plus he was better at reading the defense. I don't know what you mean by skills, but if you are referring to his moves I will take Barkley as a scorer primarily because he was able to get good shots for himself. I prefer his power game down low over Kobe's spin in place move and 3-4 ineffective pump fakes followed by a contested 20 foot fadeaway.

This

[greymatter]

I've never heard anyone claim Barkley didn't have any help. You don't make the NBA Finals without help.

His Suns teams were good enough to win it all were it not for the fact that he got injured in the playoffs in 94 and 95. Played through a dislocated shoulder and pulled groin those 2 consecutive years the Suns got bounced by the Rockets.

[iamgine]

I was lining up with 1985-2000 Barkley in place of Kobe on the 1998-2013 Lakers. So 1986 Barkley in 99? Spurs were a really great team at the time, and I wouldn't count on them losing especially since this was before Phil. I don't think 86 Barkley is that much better then 99 to change that series from a sweep to a win. 1991 Barkley in 04? Possibly. Lakers had injuries though and Pistons were really great, so I'm just assuming they won't. Its definitely possible though. I definitely believe 87-89 Barkley wins those 3 titles with Shaq from 00-02.

Umm Kobe entered the league in '97 so it's '87 Barkley in '99.

[Bigsmoke]

He had help in 93, but then he left his prime in 94. So he had a good team for a year in his prime.

Thats really barkleys fault for playing fat in his 30s

[I<3NBA]

an mvp

the greatest shooter of all time

the 2nd greatest shooter of all time

the best defensive player in the 2000s ( dpoty ) ..... twice

the 2nd best defensive player in the 2000's ( dpoty )

the 3rd best defensive player in the 2000's ( dpoty )

and the best defensive player of the 1990's ( dptoy )

a top 5 point guard all time

a top 5-10 clutch shooter all time

another top 5-10 clutch shooter all time ( twice )

and another top 5-10 clutch shooter all time ( twice )

the greatest defensive team in nba history

and a top 5 defensive team ever


---------------------------------

and thats just in the finals



in the playoffs he also faced a top 8-10 all time legend almost every year seemingly... beating him almost twice as many times


da fuq you mean "who kobe face"?

i mean, Kobe never faced MJ. if he did, he would be ringless like Barkley.

[D.J.]

When Barkley emerged in his 2nd year, Moses Malone didn't play a single playoff game and they still were a win away from the ECF. Dr. J was also on his last legs. Then when the older guys left, he had Hersey Hawkins who could score and wasn't a terrible defender, but didn't provide much else. Him and Johnny Dawkins were probably the best after Barkley at that point, which isn't saying much. They overachieved in 1990 mainly because Barkley was shooting 60% from the field and should have been MVP.

The only year Barkley had true help while in his prime was in 1993. But even then, KJ missed almost half the year and the Suns had a higher win percentage without KJ.

[comerb]

I dont hate the guy. I just think his favorite fan needed a reality check


And yes barkley had hall of famers who were old. Young, prime, a bunch of allstars. He has no excuse

Its not like hes f*ckin some dude stuck on the clippers his whole life

His best team was in Jordan's prime. That's really all the excuse you need. He had injuries problems in the latter half us his career

[Bigsmoke]

When Barkley emerged in his 2nd year, Moses Malone didn't play a single playoff game and they still were a win away from the ECF. Dr. J was also on his last legs. Then when the older guys left, he had Hersey Hawkins who could score and wasn't a terrible defender, but didn't provide much else. Him and Johnny Dawkins were probably the best after Barkley at that point, which isn't saying much. They overachieved in 1990 mainly because Barkley was shooting 60% from the field and should have been MVP.

The only year Barkley had true help while in his prime was in 1993. But even then, KJ missed almost half the year and the Suns had a higher win percentage without KJ.

Wasnt mo cheeks averaging 20\7 in the playoffs that year

[KG215]

When Barkley emerged in his 2nd year, Moses Malone didn't play a single playoff game and they still were a win away from the ECF. Dr. J was also on his last legs. Then when the older guys left, he had Hersey Hawkins who could score and wasn't a terrible defender, but didn't provide much else. Him and Johnny Dawkins were probably the best after Barkley at that point, which isn't saying much. They overachieved in 1990 mainly because Barkley was shooting 60% from the field and should have been MVP.

The only year Barkley had true help while in his prime was in 1993. But even then, KJ missed almost half the year and the Suns had a higher win percentage without KJ.

And Barkley had more 1st place votes than Magic, too. And not just 1 or 2 more, either...pretty sure it was at least 10 more 1st place votes.

Led Hawkins, Dawkins, and Gminiski (a pretty average supporting cast) to 53 wins and a playoff series win to top it off.