MJ might have the best resume ever. but peak for peak. who'd i draft? hes 6th alltime

[TonyMontana]

Does Bosh not count as part of the Heat front court? I admit I wasn't able to watch EVERY Heat playoff game the last 2 playoff runs, but didn't Bosh win a series or two for Miami? No Bosh, no rings, correct?

Correct

Rings are ultimately a team accomplishment, not an individual one. All the players playing put in a big part.

For example take World Peace off the 2010 Lakers and they dont win a title. Does it mean World Peace was an all-star player that Gasol rode to a ring? Nope.

Chris Bosh hardly qualifies as a dominant frontcourt player. He averaged 4 RPG vs the Pacers, his entire offensive game involves 20 foot jumpshots, and he is softer than toilet paper. No inside presence. Replace him with a real bigman like Joakim Noah and Miami would be winning 70 games and going 16-0 in the playoffs.

[VIntageNOvel]

Seriously? now we have to watch Kennethgriffin and Tonymontana fight

[2LeTTeRS]

While rings may be overrated here, individual performances when the stakes are the highest are not. You cannot disregard how impressive MJ proved himself to be throughout the playoffs.

There are only 2 to 3 people who can legitimately be argued to be as good as MJ at his prime, and for as great as they were (are) Oscar, LeBron and Hakeem are not on that list. Shaq had all the tools to be on the list, but to me his questionable work ethic brings him down. I don't see any other of the greats deciding to rehab on "company time" or taking as little care of their bodies as Shaq did -- and personally, I just can't rank a guy that high who lacks the passion for the game.

[Psileas]

i think its a given on ISH that we all can agree in his prime he was by far the most dominant ever.

How do people make such baseless claims? Who/What topic has ever established this?
Anyway, you'd be wrong, not even close to "we all" can agree that he was the MDE, let alone "by far".

[Hittin_Shots]

errr while once in 100 thread theres an rare occurrence when kenneth didnt bring kobe, you guys still mentioning kobe a lot, i dont know whos more insecure here, granted hes makin this thread to prove his point: peak wise hakeem is better than kobe, but doesnt mean higher in goat list (from hakeem vs kobe thread)

but he makin a reasonable thread here, a valid statement and arguably right, without sucking kobe dick, and you guys goin ham about kobe

This thread is in all entirety about Kobe, clearly it just went straight over ur head.

[PickernRoller]

Correct

Rings are ultimately a team accomplishment, not an individual one.

Likewise, Individual performance in a team game is dependent on teammates. So Jordan going 30-7-6 in a game is also dependent on the teammates he has on the floor. His FG% is also affected by the teammates he has on the floor.

Nutjobs love to separate individual performance as an static metric affected only by an individual's ability when that is totally incorrect. Granted, individual performance is affected more by a players individual skills/talent and marginally by the teammates surrounding him but still over time and throughout a season certain tendencies and trends develop. Depending on particular and unique circumstances the effect of teammates on individual performance can be notable for some players more so than others and I am not referring to "success on win scales" or what ISH refers to as "help". Just like a superstar can help makes those around him better - that old lovable logic, so too can teammates do the same for the star player.

To OP:

Yes Hakeem, Wilt, Lebron and Shaq > Jordan. You gotta wonder why he's the GOAT. Like who's choosing?

[riseagainst]

I agree for the most part but LeBron should be one

[poido123]

I'd have Shaq or MJ number 1.

Lebron

[Fresh Kid]

I agree for the most part but LeBron should be one

[SamuraiSWISH]

MJ's peak from spring of 1989 - fall of 1993 is the BEST peak of all-time. No questions asked. Everyone else comes in 2nd place. Including Shaq, Bird, Magic, LeBron, Kobe, Wilt, Kareem, West ... you name it, and MJ was better.

[Soundwave]

Filling a stat sheet doesn't equate to winning.

Too many "basketball experts" don't understand that basketball is also an issue of will power.

Do you shrink in big moments? Can you handle pressure? Can you bend the game to your will when it counts?

2 points is 2 points, but it's a hell of a lot harder to get those 2 points when everything is going wrong, and the other team is hounding you, and you're down, and you're tired, and you're basically beat.

What do you have in the tank then?

THAT to me is what marks a really great player. That's to me what defines a true champion, not just "well he had 10 rebounds per!!!", lol.

Separate men from the boys.

Shaq to me is phenomenal, but that said, he lost several series' which IMO he should not have lost. All the points/rebounds/blocks and fancy stat sheets and even dunks don't matter if you can't stop your team from losing.

MJ did not lose to the Utah Jazz multiple times in the playoffs (see: Shaq), nor did he lose in the NBA finals against lesser talented teams (see: again Shaq) nor would he ever get punked and shown up by Dirk Nowitzki (see: LeBron) in an NBA Finals. There's no real "stat" for not shrinking in big do or die moments.

[poido123]

MJ's peak from spring of 1989 - fall of 1993 is the BEST peak of all-time. No questions asked. Everyone else comes in 2nd place. Including Shaq, Bird, Magic, LeBron, Kobe, Wilt, Kareem, West ... you name it, and MJ was better.

It's not unquestionable. Shaq's 2000-2002 is beastly also. If you did have Jordan's peak higher than Shaq's, it would be a bee's dick difference.

[Marchesk]

james and robertson did more all around for their teams. so it doesnt matter whos the better player

So why did you leave Magic off? He had a few tipple doubles in his day.

[Marchesk]

The Real Top 5
1. Shaq
---
---
---
2. Duncan
3. LeBron
4. Bird
5. Wilt

What? No Kareem in your top 5? And how is Duncan's resume better than Magic's?

[TonyMontana]

What? No Kareem in your top 5? And how is Duncan's resume better than Magic's?

Kareem had some prime years where he didn't even make the playoffs. That moves him down.

Duncans took an organization that never won shit and has them winning 50+ games every year for over 15 years. Had David Robinson to start his career, but even after he declined SAS didn't miss a beat. Even at age 37 he is the the third best player in the NBA.

Magic forced his way to LA because he wanted to play on LA with Kareem and on a stacked team. If Chicago drafted him he threatened not to come out. That moves him down compared to guys like Bird/Duncan(Bird turning a 20something win team into a 61 win juggernaut).

If Magic played today he'd probably play SF and be similar to LeBron. Similar players except I see LeBron as faster, stronger, more athletic, better scorer, much better defensive player, just a superior version of Magic. Maybe the vision isn't as good as Magics, but you got to think if LeBron had the Showtime Lakers he would play more like that rather than being forced to score 30+ for his teams to win. You gotta look at LeBron almost losing to 37 year old Tim Duncans team. If Tim Duncan is in his prime and playing elite 40 minutes the Spurs win easily. That puts him above both Magic and LeBron.

Part of the reason the Spurs turn nobodies into contributors is because of the system built around Duncan. Him and Dirk are the most underrated players ever.