Is defense an overrated argument?

[Carbine]

I'd say Melo is a slightly above average defender overall, which is why I gave him a 20. He also brings lineup versatility because of his ability to play PF in todays league, which is a bonus.

[ZenMaster]

^That's the point tho, Great individual offense beats great individual defense any day. Defense is more of a team thing, while one player can pretty much dominate a game on offense by himself.

A player always has the ability to score no matter how tough the defense is, if a player gets REALLY hot from 3, how do you stop that with one player? You can't, the offensive player always has the advantage.

Just think, if defense and offense were equal wouldn't Gary Payton be better than Magic Johnson?

Getting open for three pointers is also a team thing, getting screens, having your teammates do the right spacing while making the right cuts.

Allen Iverson scored a lot of points, but his teammates worked really hard to get him open, and setting good screens is playing good offense. Iverson didn't just dribble down and go 1on1 or shoot a 3 by himself.

[Clifton]

In a league where traveling and carrying are allowed and hand-checking is not, and where standing stock still 3 feet from he basket is a shooting foul if someone runs into you, defense is simply not equal to offense.

If the NBA were a league where basketball as I know it were played, defense would be just as important, as it is in high school and college ball. But you have to play NBA-ball in the NBA, and that means you need guys who can put their heads down and go right through people to get a whistle. Far outweighs "defense." The only time a guy gets shut down is when they allow themselves to be by being lazy and settling for jumpers (Melo) when you can get to the rim at will, especially if you use screens and off-ball movement.

[Marchesk]

Well, Wilt wasn't/isn't the only one with ego issues. Russell, KAJ, Oscar, Bird, MJ, Kobe, and now Lebron. All with huge egos.

And look at Eric Dickerson, or the members of the '72 Dolphins. I don't think anyone really wants to see their records broken.

True. Maybe it goes with the territory of being untra-competitive. And I loved watching Dickerson growing up. Somewhat underrated among the all-time great running backs. Nobody was more productive than him his first seven seasons.

[Marchesk]

In a league where traveling and carrying are allowed and hand-checking is not, and where standing stock still 3 feet from he basket is a shooting foul if someone runs into you, defense is simply not equal to offense.

If the NBA were a league where basketball as I know it were played, defense would be just as important, as it is in high school and college ball. But you have to play NBA-ball in the NBA, and that means you need guys who can put their heads down and go right through people to get a whistle. Far outweighs "defense." The only time a guy gets shut down is when they allow themselves to be by being lazy and settling for jumpers (Melo) when you can get to the rim at will, especially if you use screens and off-ball movement.

This. You learn to live with all the traveling and carrying, although sometimes it's so blatant. And then the refs will call it every so often, and you're like, why now after all the ones you didn't call?

But the one that just grinds my gears is letting the offensive player put their head down like a fullback and plow into the defender, or throw themselves at a guy playing good defense, and most of the time, the offensive player gets the call. I hate that. I hate it when players pump fake, get a guy off his feet, and then jump into him. Wade is great at that. I feel like the game has been bastardized somewhat.

And then there's the flopping. Don't recall it being that big of a deal in the 80s and 90s, although I'm sure players have always tried to sell calls. It just has gotten to soccer levels of silliness in the last five years or so. Guys are professional actors out there now. It's unbelievably absurd to see a guy like Lebron flop. I know that like any pro athlete, he takes any advantage he can get. But I hate that aspect of the game.

Obligatory, "Get Off My Lawn!"

[fpliii]

This trend is pretty frustrating. I suppose if we're talking about individual offense (ISO scoring) vs individual defense (man-to-man either in the post or on the outside), then perhaps there's a case that one is more valuable than the other. Team offensive and defensive play are by nature equally important though, as when you're on offense, your opponent is defending (and vice versa). Playmakers and defensive anchors are extremely valuable (as are willing passers/screen setters/guys playing off the ball and help defenders in general), and equally so. I don't think there's much value in discussing flat 35ppg scorers, or their hypothetical defensive counterparts since neither is being viewed in a team context

Yes, effort is key in playing good defense but to trivialize that side of the ball saying anybody can be a standout? That's going too far, and disrespectful to the great defenders we've seen in league history. Defensive talent is very real. Comparing Nash to Wallace or Deke to Barkley is up to you guys, but I do think there a couple of possibilities:

1) you're relying on popular perception too much; nobody is forcing you to take one over the other

2) they're not necessarily of equal quality in the pairings (they may or may not be, but this isn't set in stone); even if Nash/Big Ben are the Xth best offensive/defensive players and Barkley/Mutombo are the Yth best respectively, they might not be of equal quality (that is to say, the 1st best player on offense/defense all-time might not be equal to each other, and so on)

Your evaluation is entirely up to you obviously, but it's a good idea to keep some of this in mind.

[feyki]

No , there's no limit on both ends . Court is Open-end way for players .

[AirBonner]

Good defense can lead to good offense

[ArbitraryWater]

Yes, Individual offense >>> Individual defense... otherwise Payton would be > Magic.

[greatest-ever]

I agree fully. But it seems that excellence in offense is always negated by the other player is a better defender
Take the thread Barkley vs. Garnett. The main argument for taking Garnett is he's a better defender. To me this belittles Barkley's offensive dominace

Or it recogizes that Kg was a pretty good offensive player in his own right and an elite rebounder. The argument would be that Kg's defensive advantage is bigger and more relevant than Barkley's offensive advantage. You're comparing a top 10 defender to an average one. That's a big deal.

[Prime_Shaq]

Depends on the player you stan.

[feyki]

Yes, Individual offense >>> Individual defense... otherwise Payton would be > Magic.

How ?

[ArbitraryWater]

How ?

Educate yourself

[feyki]

Educate yourself