better peak, Lebron vs. Kobe

[KingBeasley08]

Lebron by far

[Dave3]

Let's make it top 15 then.

Kobe was an elite player in 2000 (many put him in their top 10)?

I think he became elite in 2001, when he was a top 5 player.

That's the point, elite isn't defined as being a certain position in a certain season. One year only the top 5 players might be elite, one year 12 might be elite.

[Dave3]

Those numbers does not make you automatically elite.

I would never consider Gilbert Arenas an elite player, and he put 29, 6, 4 on 44% shooting in 06.

Sure, if you're on an incredibly terrible team and you're stat padding the entire time and you're a selfish player - yes they don't automatically make you elite.

If you however get those numbers leading a team with a poor and inconsistent supporting cast to 42 wins while also shooting 47/35/75 and 2.2 steals, yes you're elite.

[Magic 32]

That's the point, elite isn't defined as being a certain position in a certain season. One year only the top 5 players might be elite, one year 12 might be elite.

You don't think an elite player should at least make th playoffs playing in the 2005 eastern conference.

[Dave3]

You don't think an elite player should at least make th playoffs, playing in the 2005 eastern conference.

He had the same record as the 8th seed, an above .500 record with a poorly built team.

And you're going to argue making the playoffs as the minimum for being elite? Or will you claim that only applies to the East since Kobe played in the West?

[Magic 32]

Sure, if you're on an incredibly terrible team and you're stat padding the entire time and you're a selfish player - yes they don't automatically make you elite.

If you however get those numbers leading a team with a poor and inconsistent supporting cast to 42 wins while also shooting 47/35/75 and 2.2 steals, yes you're elite.

You can stat pad in many ways.

And Arenas had the same record in 2006 (42-40) and made the playoffs.

[Magic 32]

And you're going to argue making the playoffs as the minimum for being elite? Or will you claim that only applies to the East since Kobe played in the West?

Pretty much.

The west was a bloodbath in 05-07.

[Dave3]

You can stat pad in many ways.

And Arenas had the same record in 2006 (42-40) and made the playoffs.

Yeah, and LeBron didn't stat pad at all.

Not to mention, 29/6/4 isn't better than 27/7/7, and LeBron played better in 2005 than Arenas in 2007, outside of stats.

[Magic 32]

LeBron played better in 2005 than Arenas in 2007, outside of stats.

I'm talking about 06.

[Dave3]

Pretty much.

The west was a bloodbath in 05-07.

The Lakers had a below .500 record against both conferences, the Cavaliers had a .500+ record against both conferences. The Lakers' 34-48 in the West is worse than 42-40 in the East.

[Dave3]

I'm talking about 06.

And Arenas was quite elite in 2006.

[PickernRoller]

Let me see here:

The one that gets shut down by Boris Diaw and is baited into shooting or the one that could destroy your team just on offense alone all by himself. Yeah it's a hard choice, not.

[Magic 32]

The Lakers had a below .500 record against both conferences, the Cavaliers had a .500+ record against both conferences. The Lakers' 34-48 in the West is worse than 42-40 in the East.

The Cavs were healthy, had the same coach all year, played in the east and had a starting froncourt that put up 31 & 18.

If you don't think that 05 Kobe could get that team in to the EC playoffs, we have nothing to discuss.

[Magic 32]

And Arenas was quite elite in 2006.

Not in my book.

[Dave3]

Not in my book.

And yet 2005 Kobe is? If to you 2005 Kobe > 2005 LeBron and 2006 Arenas, then I have nothing left to argue.