LeBron's legacy in the line

[Vienceslav]

Yes, it will hurt his legacy.

1-4 in the Finals is just not going to cut it. MJ is 6-0 in the Finals, Kobe 5-2, Duncan 4-0 etc. It is really hard to put him in the top ten with a potential 1-4 record.

I see your point, but in this scenario he's basically being punished for getting to the Finals from the weaker conference and getting swept by the Spurs, if he was in the west and went out in the 1st round every year and now was 1-1 in the finals potentially going 2-1 it would be a different story.
At this point the Jordan argument is probably dead, but will there ever be a player who will be able to live up to the Jordan standard?

[2010splash]

Are you crazy? He's already locked into the top 10 if he retires. Winning 4 MVP's and having one of the most dominant playoff runs ever en route to a title (2012) assured him of that. Kobe only has 1 MVP and far more Finals meltdowns and most people have him in the top 10 (though he may be bumped out if LeBron wins it all this year). Hakeem only has 1 MVP and everyone has him top 10.

If LeBron wins it all (even if he doesn't) here is the top 10 (not in order):

Unquestionably top 10: Jordan, LeBron, Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Duncan

Next tier: Bird, Kobe, Hakeem

As you can see, one of Bird, Kobe or Hakeem will be kicked out of the top 10. It comes down to either Kobe or Hakeem.

[2010splash]

List of 4-time MVP winners: Jordan, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, LeBron. Anyone using championships as a reason for keeping LeBron outside the top 10 just doesn't understand basketball. If Kobe was the one drafted onto the Cavs and LeBron got traded to prime Shaq's team as a rookie, LeBron would probably have 5-6 titles by now and Kobe has none. What was LeBron supposed to do, lead Mo Williams and Anderson Varejao to a championship? Lmao!!! Use some common sense.

[DMAVS41]

Depends on what that means.

He's a sure fire top 11 player of all time...even if he retired after this series.

So no matter what, he's one of the greatest players of all time by any standard or measure.

Now...if he wants to get into that elite top 6 or even higher...I just don't see how he can lose this series. Mainly because Duncan would just be so far ahead of him at that point. 5 titles for Duncan and 16 great years with no playoff meltdowns and a title with some of the worst help ever in 03...just going to be hard for Lebron to ever match that...

So I'd say that 7th all time is his ceiling if the Heat lose this series.

And jumping the likes of Bird, Shaq, Hakeem, and Kobe is hardly a lock with another finals loss. The Heat are getting worse and if the Heat lose this series it either means Bosh/Wade were beyond terrible...or Lebron couldn't take over.

Both would be very bad signs of things to come...

[Ne 1]

Are you crazy? He's already locked into the top 10 if he retires. Winning 4 MVP's and having one of the most dominant playoff runs ever en route to a title (2012) assured him of that. Kobe only has 1 MVP and far more Finals meltdowns and most people have him in the top 10 (though he may be bumped out if LeBron wins it all this year). Hakeem only has 1 MVP and everyone has him top 10.

If LeBron wins it all (even if he doesn't) here is the top 10 (not in order):

Unquestionably top 10: Jordan, LeBron, Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Duncan

Next tier: Bird, Kobe, Hakeem

As you can see, one of Bird, Kobe or Hakeem will be kicked out of the top 10. It comes down to either Kobe or Hakeem.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...5&postcount=63

[dh144498]

Are you crazy? He's already locked into the top 10 if he retires. Winning 4 MVP's and having one of the most dominant playoff runs ever en route to a title (2012) assured him of that. Kobe only has 1 MVP and far more Finals meltdowns and most people have him in the top 10 (though he may be bumped out if LeBron wins it all this year). Hakeem only has 1 MVP and everyone has him top 10.

If LeBron wins it all (even if he doesn't) here is the top 10 (not in order):

Unquestionably top 10: Jordan, LeBron, Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Duncan

Next tier: Bird, Kobe, Hakeem

As you can see, one of Bird, Kobe or Hakeem will be kicked out of the top 10. It comes down to either Kobe or Hakeem.

If Lebron were to retire today, he would not be in the top 10. He's just floating around 15 right now if you were being generous. Most people have him 15-20.
only a lebron stan would say otherwise.

[DMAVS41]

If Lebron were to retire today, he would not be in the top 10. He's just floating around 15 right now if you were being generous. Most people have him 15-20.
only a lebron stan would say otherwise.

I'm not a Lebron stan and Lebron is clearly the 11th best player of all time.

Please tell me how West and Moses and god knows who else you would list are better than Lebron.

[NumberSix]

I'm not a Lebron stan and Lebron is clearly the 11th best player of all time.

Please tell me how West and Moses and god knows who else you would list are better than Lebron.

Lol. Fffffffcuk no. He's much higher than that. #4 at worst. There have not been 10 better players. You can make your silly legacy arguments, but LeBron isn't only the 11th best player.

[dh144498]

I'm not a Lebron stan and Lebron is clearly the 11th best player of all time.

Please tell me how West and Moses and god knows who else you would list are better than Lebron.

those 2, Dr J, Oscar R.

having him at 15th is way more reasonable than having lebron stans having him at 1-4....

try arguing against them.

[2010splash]

If Lebron were to retire today, he would not be in the top 10. He's just floating around 15 right now if you were being generous. Most people have him 15-20.
only a lebron stan would say otherwise.

You've completely lost it. You are either a Kobe stan or a troll if you honestly believe a goddamn 4-time MVP winner is outside the top 10. Either way, logic cannot be used against your kind.

LeBron's currently sitting at probably 7-8 all-time and with another title moves up to top 4 all time. As high as 2 and no lower than 4. LOL at you bringing up Oscar, Dr. J, Moses etc. They aren't in LeBron's league.

I've been waiting for people to give me a good explanation for why 4-time MVP + 2-time champion Wilt Chamberlain is in the "Immortal 5" all-time and yet 4-time MVP + 2-time champion LeBron James (if he wins this year) would merely crack the top 10. Stupidity.

[dh144498]

You've completely lost it. You are either a Kobe stan or a troll if you honestly believe a goddamn 4-time MVP winner is outside the top 10. Either way, logic cannot be used against your kind.

LeBron's currently sitting at probably 7-8 all-time and with another title moves up to top 4 all time. As high as 2 and no lower than 4. LOL at you bringing up Oscar, Dr. J, Moses etc. They aren't in LeBron's league.

I've been waiting for people to give me a good explanation for why 4-time MVP + 2-time champion Wilt Chamberlain is in the "Immortal 5" all-time and yet 4-time MVP + 2-time champion LeBron James (if he wins this year) would merely crack the top 10. Stupidity.

i like Kobe, but i'm still objective.
anyway, Wilt Chamberlain is overrated, but then again, he does avg 30-23-4 over his career. I have him way lower because he's a career playoff choker. Lebron's 2011 failure can't just be ignored. It's THE worst performance from any all time great player, EVER. If it weren't for that, he'd probably be 12 or so, right now.
another chip this year, depending on his performance, will bump him to 10 but that's really as far as it goes.

[Goldrush25]

That's why nobody likes the cHEAT! They think they can buy a ring, the only one they have has an *. The only reason they are holding up 1 in their team photo is because that's the only chip they'll get. And it was a shortened season, 82 game grinds speak for themselves.

They don't think they can buy a ring, they did buy a ring.

And who doesn't buy a ring? No one wins a title without getting outside help via free agents or trade. Those players cost money too.

[2010splash]

i like Kobe, but i'm still objective.
anyway, Wilt Chamberlain is overrated, but then again, he does avg 30-23-4 over his career. I have him way lower because he's a career playoff choker. Lebron's 2011 failure can't just be ignored. It's THE worst performance from any all time great player, EVER. If it weren't for that, he'd probably be 12 or so, right now.
another chip this year, depending on his performance, will bump him to 10 but that's really as far as it goes.

Ok, well pretty much everyone else has Wilt in the top 5 all-time. And if you think his stats are impressive, imagine what LeBron "walking triple double in the modern era" James would put up in the 60's. dude would average 40/18/12 easily. LeBron wins any argument involving stats against any player.

And no, you're blowing 2011 way out of proportion. Kobe had SEVERAL (not just one) worse Finals performances. Bird, Magic and Kareem also had more than one Finals choke. As did Wilt. 4 MVP's = dominance. Repeating championships = dominance. If Wilt is in the top 5 (and everyone has him in the top 5), LeBron eaaasssily is in the top 5 with a title.

Hakeem is someone who is barely top 10 all-time. He has 1 MVP. LeBron has 4x as many MVP's and if he wins a title this year absolutely blows away Hakeem. Thus, ranking him in "the top 10" only is just a gross and silly underrating of him.

[sportjames23]

[ganja0710]

His legacy will be untouchable when its all said and done.

4 MVP's BOYYYYY