As I predicted, the Bulls would win 45-50 games without Rose...

[PieceOfFelt]

The difference is that the bulls actually had a lot of roster changes in that short time between the 2 3peats. Michael and Scottie where the only 2 players on the 2nd 3peat roster from the first one.

Yes, the 93' and 94' teams were very different.

- Felt

[Unstoppabull]

Only an idiot think them winning that amount of regular season games is a reflection of their talent, when in actuality it's evidence of the great coaching and motivation tactics of Thibs.

That's why they always bust their nut in the regular season. They play as hard as they can all season, every night. Not every team does that ... they still aren't close from a talent perspective to Miami, New York, Indiana, OKC, LA Lakers, Clippers, Spurs, Mavericks, etc.

This. I haven't seen any team play harder than the Bulls in the regular season.

[Graviton]

The difference is that the bulls actually had a lot of roster changes in that short time between the 2 3peats. Michael and Scottie where the only 2 players on the 2nd 3peat roster from the first one.

And what does that have to do with anything?

By your logic, Jordan wasn't really MVP since his team still won 55 games, or even without him his team was so stacked that they still can win that many games. Same can be said about Lebron with Heat having Wade/Bosh/Allen/Battier.

[PieceOfFelt]

This. I haven't seen any team play harder than the Bulls in the regular season.

The Bulls and Spurs play harder than any other teams in the regular season. That's a reflection of their coaches.

- Felt

[NumberSix]

And what does that have to do with anything?

By your logic, Jordan wasn't really MVP since his team still won 55 games, or even without him his team was so stacked that they still can win that many games. Same can be said about Lebron with Heat having Wade/Bosh/Allen/Battier.

I would LOVE for you to explain exactly how that's "my logic". G'head.

[Graviton]

I would LOVE for you to explain exactly how that's "my logic". G'head.

Are you retarded?

Bulls with Rose - 62-20
Bulls without Rose win 40-45 games=they are still a good team, Rose isn't an MVP caliber player.

Jordan with the Bulls - 57-25
Bulls without Jordan - 55-27 - WTF they are still a great team without him! He wasn't an MVP caliber player!

Was that clear enough for your IQ level?

[SamuraiSWISH]

'94 Bulls won all those games for a few reasons:

- Motivated to prove they weren't Jordan-aires
- Had 3 seasons of chemistry and championship experience
- The league underestimated them sans Jordan

Why do people think they were so good or that what they accomplished is special? They struggled v.s. the Knicks and still lost in 6 games. Not 7 ... and they had multiple chances to win and couldn't capitalize.

And if they did, they still have to win out in the ECF. So the difference between Bulls sans Jordan is 2nd round exit, and with him 60+ wins every year, pure domination and THREE PEAT champions.

Oh yea, the very next year the '95 Bulls struggled to stay above .500. Granted they lost Horace, but that wasn't the only reason they struggled. Teams no longer under estimated them.

[NumberSix]

Are you retarded?

Bulls with Rose - 62-20
Bulls without Rose win 40-45 games=they are still a good team, Rose isn't an MVP caliber player.

Jordan with the Bulls - 57-25
Bulls without Jordan - 55-27 - WTF they are still a great team without him! He wasn't an MVP caliber player!

Was that clear enough for your IQ level?

Did you miss the part of my post where I explained that the roster was completely changed?

[DMAVS41]

The Bulls with Rose would be the 2nd best team in the East...and really only the Thunder and Heat could claim to be better on paper. Well, the Lakers could, but obviously that hasn't worked yet.

[DMV2]

The difference is that the bulls actually had a lot of roster changes in that short time between the 2 3peats. Michael and Scottie where the only 2 players on the 2nd 3peat roster from the first one.

First 3-peat was from '91-'93 and second 3-peat was '96-'98.

I'm talking about the '94 Bulls, the season Jordan went to play baseball. Before Jordan's first retirement, he had three Finals MVP and three MVPs under his belt.

And besides Jordan, wasn't a big roster change between the '93 Bulls and '94 Bulls.

Armstrong, Cartwright, English, Grant, King, Paxton, Purdue, Pippen, Williams were all on the '93 and '94 Bulls roster. '94 Bulls added a rookie Kukoc.

Basically, that '94 Bulls were still good enough to make it to the playoffs but without Jordan they weren't a championship team, not even a ECF championship team.

Current Bulls without Rose is a playoff, most posters here already knew that. But without Rose, they're a 1st Round exit team. They were a 1st RD exit team in the 2012 playoffs, and most likely again this upcoming playoffs.

[I.R.Beast]

Only an idiot think them winning that amount of regular season games is a reflection of their talent, when in actuality it's evidence of the great coaching and motivation tactics of Thibs.

That's why they always bust their nut in the regular season. They play as hard as they can all season, every night. Not every team does that ... they still aren't close from a talent perspective to Miami, New York, Indiana, OKC, LA Lakers, Clippers, Spurs, Mavericks, etc.

and the eastern conference is trash

[SamuraiSWISH]

The Bulls with Rose would be the 2nd best team in the East...

Nah, not better than the Knicks. Right there with Indiana probably.

And only because of Rose ... not the other talent on the roster.

This isn't the Mavs we're talking about here in terms of all around talent. Which Dirk managed to miss the entire playoffs with.

[Silence]

I find it strange that some of you are using this season as proof that Rose should not have won MVP in 2011. Bulls finished with the best record in the entire league two years in a row with Derrick, and are now likely to finish 5th place in the extremely weak east without him (12th overall in the league). If anything this season should strengthen his case for winning it, not diminish it. If you don't think that Rose should have won, that's fine. Just don't use the current record of the Bulls to support your argument.

[francesco totti]

The impact of cleveland without lebron or orlando without howard been bigger then chicago without rose...


but you need to factor in other roster changes as well

[Graviton]

Did you miss the part of my post where I explained that the roster was completely changed?

That's even worse genius, the impact Jordan has was so minimal that a new roster assembled could fill in his role and still win that many games?

Don't you realize that makes your logic that much worse? Some role players they assembled were enough to balance out loss of Michael ****ing Jordan? That guy was an irreplacable MVP?