As I predicted, the Bulls would win 45-50 games without Rose...

[GreatGreg]

No hating BTW.

Hey numbnuts, 45-50 is a huge difference from 60+

[GreatGreg]

Bah, kblaze beat me to it. But some of you retards need to think before you post

[Pointguard]

So you agree with me.

Yes. Westbrook on that team and they are close to 60 wins. Defensively they would be unreal with him...as he's a much better defender than Rose.

That team is actually probably better for Westbrook considering his better defense.

I don't know who I would start, but a closing lineup of Westbrook, Butler, Deng, Boozer, and Noah would be absolutely deadly on defense.

And with the defensive presence of Westbrook, Deng, and Noah...you could play Hinrich and Hamilton to space the floor for Westbrook.

That is why I want Rose to come back...this team has real potential.

And Butler is going without notice. He's becoming awesome. Put up 22 and 14 tonight.

Remember Chicago hardly ran offensive sets the first year. You think Westbrook has the mentality to run a team that hardly practiced offense??? Its a first year team. Remember Wade and Lebron in their first year together. Remember their was a real problem of getting the offense in sync. They along with Chris Paul are a head above all other players in exercising whether to pass or shoot. Chris Paul in his first year with his new team also has the same problem. Kobe Bryant also! had the same problem. Four of the best players at this skill of judgement, experience along with leadership, had major problems with keeping their more talented teams on the same page Its apparently not an easy thing to do.

Rose's leadership is on a different level than Westbrook's. When I was talking about this before he won MVP and talking about how Howard lacked this skill, I could see you and a couple of others not getting it then but now several things have come to light.. Rose would be the leader on OKC (Durant said he's just finding out what it entails and Harden pretty much played the role) and OKC would have the best record - no questions asked. OKC often plays disjointed, unfocused and moreso now that Harden is gone. To suggest that Westbrook could come from a team where players have great outstanding talent and great pieces can come over to a team with no outstanding talent, and only very good pieces doesn't make sense. Particularly when you factor in that there is a better player than Westbrook on his own team.

Then throw in adapting to injuries like crazy. You talk about Westbrook's defense but nobody had big games against Rose that year. It was an as thorough of shut out as you would ever see. I don't recall any other player where one player outplayed all of the stars opposite them. Westbrook is having a good year but I recall at least three times when a player opposite him had a big game this year. And Rose guarded Westbrook in their matchups while Westbrook didn't even guard Rose.

Two years ago a turnover prone, absent leader, that lacked discipline wasn't going to do much for a new team, going thru injuries and a new system. You over simplifying things by saying Westbrook on Chicago would be great or equal. Rose was one of the best players in working controlled aggression in the league. Harden was the glue guy on OKC. Westbrook still hasn't stepped up into that position.

So no, they were not on the same level at all in 2011. And Rose made significant improvements every year in the league.

[DMAVS41]

I honestly don't think you watch enough Bulls games to realize how much pressure Rose takes off of EVERY SINGLE player on this team, offensively.

Our offense this year, is so atrociously bad, besides what you saw in the Miami and NY games. If you watched the Bulls on a game by game basis, you would know how much we miss Rose in SO many ways.

Just like I couldn't argue with you, how much the Mavs need Nowitzki.

Where do you get that from anything I've said? I said they'd be a 60 plus win team with him.

I've argued they would have a shot against the Heat.

How is that downplaying his impact? He's the difference between a first round exit and at worst a trip to the ECF in my opinion.

Again. I like Rose...don't like his fans. I think Rose needs to be more efficient and dial back settling for 3's, but he's young and will learn.

[Y2Gezee]

Just another reason why Rose should be playing with his guys.

This is an excellent team.

[DMAVS41]

Remember Chicago hardly ran offensive sets the first year. You think Westbrook has the mentality to run a team that hardly practiced offense??? Its a first year team. Remember Wade and Lebron in their first year together. Remember their was a real problem of getting the offense in sync. They along with Chris Paul are a head above all other players in exercising whether to pass or shoot. Chris Paul in his first year with his new team also has the same problem. Kobe Bryant also! had the same problem. Four of the best players at this skill of judgement, experience along with leadership, had major problems with keeping their more talented teams on the same page Its apparently not an easy thing to do.

Rose's leadership is on a different level than Westbrook's. When I was talking about this before he won MVP and talking about how Howard lacked this skill, I could see you and a couple of others not getting it then but now several things have come to light.. Rose would be the leader on OKC (Durant said he's just finding out what it entails and Harden pretty much played the role) and OKC would have the best record - no questions asked. OKC often plays disjointed, unfocused and moreso now that Harden is gone. To suggest that Westbrook could come from a team where players have great outstanding talent and great pieces can come over to a team with no outstanding talent, and only very good pieces doesn't make sense. Particularly when you factor in that there is a better player than Westbrook on his own team.

Then throw in adapting to injuries like crazy. You talk about Westbrook's defense but nobody had big games against Rose that year. It was an as thorough of shut out as you would ever see. I don't recall any other player where one player outplayed all of the stars opposite them. Westbrook is having a good year but I recall at least three times when a player opposite him had a big game this year. And Rose guarded Westbrook in their matchups while Westbrook didn't even guard Rose.

Two years ago a turnover prone, absent leader, that lacked discipline wasn't going to do much for a new team, going thru injuries and a new system. You over simplifying things by saying Westbrook on Chicago would be great or equal. Rose was one of the best players in working controlled aggression in the league. Harden was the glue guy on OKC. Westbrook still hasn't stepped up into that position.

So no, they were not on the same level at all in 2011. And Rose made significant improvements every year in the league.

Well, I disagree with just about everything. I think Westbrook is just as good as Rose. Was just as good as him in 11...and Westbrook is absolutely a better defender.

That team with Westbrook defending is just a nightmare.

They are just such similar players...especially in 11. Both inefficient as hell in the playoffs. Both prone to settling for bad long shots. I'd say Rose was a better playmaker, but Westbrook was a superior defender. And I liked that Westbrook didn't take as many 3's...although he might have taken a few more in Chicago.

I'm not arguing that Westbrook is/was better. I'm saying that there is virtually no difference between the two players. Which there...just isn't.

[Pointguard]

Well, I disagree with just about everything. I think Westbrook is just as good as Rose. Was just as good as him in 11...and Westbrook is absolutely a better defender.

That team with Westbrook defending is just a nightmare.

They are just such similar players...especially in 11. Both inefficient as hell in the playoffs. Both prone to settling for bad long shots. I'd say Rose was a better playmaker, but Westbrook was a superior defender. And I liked that Westbrook didn't take as many 3's...although he might have taken a few more in Chicago.

I'm not arguing that Westbrook is/was better. I'm saying that there is virtually no difference between the two players. Which there...just isn't.

Rose's role was to cause chaos even if inefficiency was the byproduct. When you haven't played many offensive sets all year the goal of the team isn't efficiency. New sets, new system, and an offensive burden that made any other superstar's load look cheap were causes for his playoff inefficiency. Lebron, Wade, Kobe, and Chris Paul all went thru the similar droughts despite having far less of an offensive burden. Rose was a very efficient player in the playoffs before despite having played against the best defensive teams in the two prior years.

So you disagree with everything I wrote but won't list anything, huh?
Wow, so you think Westbrook wasn't turnover prone?

You thought he was a great leader in 2011?

You think Westbrook is the glue guy on OKC at any point in reality???

You think Chicago had better pieces than OKC?
You think Chicago had one of the games best shot blockers (Ibaka)?
The games best scorer and one of the best shooters? The games best man on man center defender (Perk)? One of the games best sixth men (Harden). A team without any injuries? You can claim some ignorance's but I know you know that OKC has the best record with Rose that year. And there is no reason why a perfectly healthy all year round OKC has to fight a wounded old SA team that had a good missed 30 games to key players due to injuries.

In guarding superstars Rose was definitely a better defender than Westbrook in 2011. Westbrook wasn't 't even always guarding superstar PG's. When he did it wasn't close to the job that Rose did on Paul, Rondo, Williams, Billups and Nash. And since when do you value defense so much anyway.

If Rose was on OKC they would have the best record every year. Please tell me what you disagree with?

[Go Getter]

The Heat could win 45-50 games in the East without Bron. So?

[Kblaze8855]

I think there is a rather large difference. How much you shoot isnt as important as why you take the shots. They are both aggressive, athletic, scoring points, but I dont think that makes them the same any more than all shooters or post scorers are. Mostly...because of the why.

Even if he takes 30 shots it doesnt seem his teammates are frustrated with Rose. Ive read through his career...veterans(Kurt Thomas for one) saying it was hard to get him to understand why he needed to shoot. Russell I can tell annoys his teammates now and then.

I think they like him. He doesnt deserve half the hate he sees. But I dont think Rose given a Durant is gonna be seen as nearly as disruptive or a hidrance to his game the way Russell often is.

I think Russell scores from a "Something to prove" mentality which I dont think Rose shares.

Which makes a difference. Id say Russell could potentially help the Bulls get to the same level Rose does. But I bet the Thunder with Rose would be better than with Russell. I dont think anyone would need to make one of these:

[DMAVS41]

Rose's role was to cause chaos even if inefficiency was the byproduct. When you haven't played many offensive sets all year the goal of the team isn't efficiency. New sets, new system, and an offensive burden that made any other superstar's load look cheap were causes for his playoff inefficiency. Lebron, Wade, Kobe, and Chris Paul all went thru the similar droughts despite having far less of an offensive burden. Rose was a very efficient player in the playoffs before despite having played against the best defensive teams in the two prior years.

So you disagree with everything I wrote but won't list anything, huh?
Wow, so you think Westbrook wasn't turnover prone?

You thought he was a great leader in 2011?

You think Westbrook is the glue guy on OKC at any point in reality???

You think Chicago had better pieces than OKC?
You think Chicago had one of the games best shot blockers (Ibaka)?
The games best scorer and one of the best shooters? The games best man on man center defender (Perk)? One of the games best sixth men (Harden). A team without any injuries? You can claim some ignorance's but I know you know that OKC has the best record with Rose that year. And there is no reason why a perfectly healthy all year round OKC has to fight a wounded old SA team that had a good missed 30 games to key players due to injuries.

In guarding superstars Rose was definitely a better defender than Westbrook in 2011. Westbrook wasn't 't even always guarding superstar PG's. When he did it wasn't close to the job that Rose did on Paul, Rondo, Williams, Billups and Nash. And since when do you value defense so much anyway.

If Rose was on OKC they would have the best record every year. Please tell me what you disagree with?

I don't "know" anything about what Rose would wouldn't do on the Thunder. I would imagine the results would be roughly the same with him instead of Westbrook. I certainly don't think they beat the Heat last year or anything like that.

I've already told you I think they are virtually the same player. I think Westbrook is a better defender...while Rose is a better game manager. But the two, in terms of impact and style is about as close as it gets for me.

It's not a knock on Rose. He's just done nothing, imo, to separate himself the way you claim he has.

Until I see something out of him that makes me think he's better than Westbrook...I'll continue to lump them together...and rightfully so

Over the last 3 years

23/7/4 53% TS for Rose

23/7/3 54% TS for Westbrook


Playoffs?

25/7/5 50% TS for Rose

23/6/6 51% TS for Westbrook


They just have such a similar impact and game. I'd bet you'd see Westbrook's numbers go up across the board on a single star team as well, but it wouldn't make him any better.

Both guys are awesome. Both guys have struggled with efficiency, especially in the playoffs. Rose takes way too many 3's and Westbrook takes way too many long jumpers.

I can't really speak to leadership or anything like that because I don't see the impact of it. In fact, in the ECF in 11...I saw anything but leadership from Rose. I saw a shaky player that looked unsure of himself in crunch time.

There is just virtually nothing that separates them...and at some point, very soon, Westbrook's ability to never miss a game is going to matter a lot.

[nathanjizzle]

I don't "know" anything about what Rose would wouldn't do on the Thunder. I would imagine the results would be roughly the same with him instead of Westbrook. I certainly don't think they beat the Heat last year or anything like that.

I've already told you I think they are virtually the same player. I think Westbrook is a better defender...while Rose is a better game manager. But the two, in terms of impact and style is about as close as it gets for me.

It's not a knock on Rose. He's just done nothing, imo, to separate himself the way you claim he has.

Until I see something out of him that makes me think he's better than Westbrook...I'll continue to lump them together...and rightfully so

Over the last 3 years

23/7/4 53% TS for Rose

23/7/3 54% TS for Westbrook


Playoffs?

25/7/5 50% TS for Rose

23/6/6 51% TS for Westbrook


They just have such a similar impact and game. I'd bet you'd see Westbrook's numbers go up across the board on a single star team as well, but it wouldn't make him any better.

Both guys are awesome. Both guys have struggled with efficiency, especially in the playoffs. Rose takes way too many 3's and Westbrook takes way too many long jumpers.

I can't really speak to leadership or anything like that because I don't see the impact of it. In fact, in the ECF in 11...I saw anything but leadership from Rose. I saw a shaky player that looked unsure of himself in crunch time.

There is just virtually nothing that separates them...and at some point, very soon, Westbrook's ability to never miss a game is going to matter a lot.

in 2011 i did the same stat check i did with lebron against the top 6 teams in the nba

rose were 28 pts 7 assist and bulls <.600 winning percentage
westbrook from what i can remember was under 20 pts and had 5. somthing assists. i dont remember there record. pretty big difference and it was clear who was better 2 years ago and anyone that think they are the same player is ignorant. now 2 years later you cant judge whos better since rose has been out a year.

[The_Yearning]

D.Rose bitchass being out for a year got these clowns talking nonsense.

Westbrook just isn't on Rose's level.