Gary Payton: LeBron wouldn't be as good in our era

[Just2McFly]

Would Lebron still be allowed to use his off arm to push the defenders out of the way? Serious question.


The league was in hurry to outlaw the Durant rip move, but apparently they have no problem with Lebron pushing people away with his off arm.

You are pitiful. A knicks fan complaining about LeBron's push offs like he's world renowned for that when your division rival has a guy who's been doing for over a decade.

[chips93]

So then I guess Gary Payton wouldn't be as good of a defender in this era is a fair assessment?

apparently so

[DatAsh]

Eh, the same "soft, not as physical" complaints people have about the league now, people had back in the '90s. I saw old timers from the '70s on half time segments making fun of how you couldn't guard Jordan because of all the favorable rules for him (isolation, lack of physicality etc). I'll gladly upload video of couple of them talking about this because I think I saved it somewhere. And the same "hand-checking" complaints were going on in 1993, in fact here's an NY Times article:


Published: March 28, 1993

Great post. The hand-checking rule changes aren't exclusive to the most recent era. Arguably the most significant hand check change came in 1994, which was before the majority of Payton's career, and even that change wasn't the first. The league has been making it harder on the big man, easier on the guard for quite some time now; so while Lebron may have a slightly easier time getting to the pasket than Payton did, Payton probably had an easier time than Jordan did in the 80s, and Jordan had an easier time getting there in the 80s than Erving did in the 70s.

Here are some of the rules that have been enforced on hand checking as an attempt to make it easier for perimeter players to get to the basket.

1978-79

[La Frescobaldi]

This is why the media is and always was utterly worthless as a method to select anything in sports.

Does anyone , anywhere , at any time, disagree with these simple truths?

Fact: People tend to believe what they read.
Fact: techniques of propaganda are well-advanced.
Fact: sportswriters have a fundamental requirement of livelihood to create newsworthy articles.
Fact: the accolades commonly used to "evaluate" players, are given by the same sportswriters who are forced to live and function according to the very same facts of nature just listed.

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The very same media figures who created a false god 10 years ago by proclaiming that Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball player of all-time - are now proclaiming the next generation's greatest player is better than the last.

And the very same TYPE OF PEOPLE who were swayed by these sportswriters and their propaganda, are going to be swayed by them now. Very soon people will be proclaiming James is the GOAT - not just morons on InsideHoops, but supposedly impartial, knowledgeable figures in sports.
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For all these years and decades, Oscar Robertson has wisely ignored the stupid & vapid question "who is the greatest of all time." The Big O was probably the first significant figure in basketball to proclaim that LeBron James was at least as good as Jordan and quite probably better.

And those who had drunk of the Jordan propaganda... who drank the vampire's blood and became mindless disciples of the media's darling...... they were then forced to smear Oscar because their world view couldn't possibly support such a claim.

When Kareem Abdul-Jabbar wrote an open letter on the subject to Scottie Pippen, the vampires leapt from every casket, teeth glittering and clutching hands groping for #33's throat.

Just like vampire ghouls in the movies, these so-called defenders of the GOAT know full well they must protect the vampire leader AT ALL COSTS or their whole world will vanish in smoke.

Thus has it always been.

Poor Shaquille O'Neal!! Poor Kobe Bryant!! They appeared on the scene too soon!! The propaganda machine had already been used to the fullest, it was out of gas, exhausted, needed time to replenish before being used like that again.
Even the mindless vampire ghouls couldn't be moved to a new source of blood so soon!!

Where's Van Helsing? He's got a lot of work to do around here

[BlackVVaves]

Bottom line, most of you don't understand the visible difference in the physicality the game had pre 2005. It was significant. Hell, modern Euroleage and FIBA basketball is known to be the more physically grueling brand of basketball compared to the modern product the league puts out.

And no, hand check wouldn't reduce LeBron, who along with Kobe and Wade are arguably the greatest perimeter talents of all-time this side of Jordan, to mere role player status. GP didn't say that either, so check yourselves from saying he's a bitter old man, making "in my day" type nostalgia arguments.

Hand check would absolutely lessen LeBron's statistical impact. From FG percentage on to volume scoring, or potential play making that would produce assist numbers. Have any of you ever actually played when someone is allowed to body you in your square and physically stay attached to your hip as a defender? It bothers you. It limits you.

If you acknowledge LeBron's weaknesses as a player, hand checking and more physical play would absolutely hinder is perimeter game. LeBron has a slow first step. He's a great penetrator with a head of steam. Thus the use of picks, and with modern no touch rules he can get a head of steam and not have to worry about being touched or bumped by the defender, thus becoming an unstoppable penetrator to the rim.

As we saw when Kobe bodied him in the All Star Game, his perimeter game doesn't translate well to more physical rules on the perimeter. He can't shoot going right off the dribble, and he can't explode going left. Thus, flaws become magnified with more physical defense. Payton's ultimate point.

There are holes in LeBron's game. It isn't flawless. In this current rule setting, he almost is flawless though. That's why he's putting up absurd numbers, on ridiculous efficiency. But right now the NBA is about entertainment, and selling a product. That was the reason for the rule changes on the perimeter. Find the next MJ quickly, big scoring numbers, more highlights, equates to more fans and higher dollar amounts coming into the league. Plus, the league got so physical by the late 90's, the games were brutal and boring to watch.

And LOL @ the hyperbole and agendas in this thread. Pre-2005 was absolutely a more physical brand of basketball, even more so pre 1999 with tougher man defensive rules.

Most formidable and accurate post based on esteemed observation and assessment - NOT fanboy opinion - in the entire thread. Future rep.

[Rysio]

i dont think there is an era that can stop him from stat padding so he'd always fool the dumb uneducated fans into thinking he's best player in the league as he has done today when in reality he's just barley top 5.

[CavaliersFTW]

i dont think there is an era that can stop him from stat padding so he'd always fool the dumb uneducated fans into thinking he's best player in the league as he has done today when in reality he's just barley top 5.

[andgar923]

These are just some clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw

This is what Mj had to go through. As I mentioned, these are some clips, he was facing this type of defense on damn near every single play, whether he had the ball or not, whether he was on offense or defense he was getting held, he was getting bumped. Look at how crowded the lanes are, look how Shrempf a slow big man can stay in front of MJ by using angles and hand checking along with a crowded paint.