Orlando Dwight

[STATUTORY]

I especially like how Kobe drives in to the paint, goes up for a shot, waits for Dwight to turn around to look for the rebound, and then fires a "pass" right into the back of his head. If nothing else, the Lakers sure are entertaining.

yea he's actively waiting for Dwight to turn around just to bounce the ball off the back of his head for kicks. Or maybe it's cause Dwight's inability to get the ball of traditional PnR sets or post ups that's forcing Kobe to find alternative passing lanes.

[ShaqAttack3234]

So if the coaching doesn't matter, and it's all up to the players - which is what you're insinuating - , then what's the problem?


Kind of like George Karl or Rick Adelman or any other coach not named Jackson or Popovich in the last 20 years. And he wasn't favoring Lin over Melo, he was favoring winning over a fat malcontent who wanted him fired. You act like he was bringing Melo off the bench and limiting his shot attempts.

Here's my thing. He may not be a great coach, but I feel like of a lot of the criticisms are from people who aren't actually watching the games. He's obviously not running his PHX Suns system in LA, they're a slower, more half court-oriented team, with the shooting guard as the focal point of the offense as opposed to the PG. When was the last time a SG led a "classic" D'antoni team in scoring? It's supposed to be the big man in the middle!

And, with all of these concessions, they've looked their best this season when they've let Nash run the offense and work through Dwight or Pau. But they can't do that as much as I'm sure they'd like too, because then Kobe wouldn't be getting his 30 shots a game.

All the while, he can't post up Dwight because he sucks now, he can't use him the pick and roll because he's awful at that too, they don't have any shooters except for Nash (who is actually playing pretty damn well, because he's some kind of ageless wizard), he can't post up Pau because he's garbage down there, they look pretty good running the pick and roll with Pau, but he obviously doesn't want to be there anymore, Kobe has no concept of aging gracefully for the good of the team, they have no bench, they had no training camp, and he's getting no credit at all for Earl Clark finally looking like the NBA player his body and skills suggest he should be.

It's pandemonium in LA!

Look, Adelman is a hell of a coach, I've watched him coach for 20 or so years now, and he has adjusted to different rosters. D'Antoni had his moment in the sun, and the success wasn't so great that he can live off it. I place as much importance on coaching as anyone I've met, and D'Antoni in NY, and now LA is one of the worst high-profile coaches I've seen. Look at Melo now, an MVP candidate. Look at Woodson, he's been a REAL coach, and I'm excited about the Knicks for the first time in a long time.

I doubt I'm qualified to be a coach, I'm a fucking fan. But with that being said, I'm an NBA fanatic with above average intelligence, and relative to other coaches D'Antoni is a bum. It's incredible, really. You'd think he'd have won a title or 2 considering how stubbornly he sticks to his philosophy, but whatever, his coaching career is almost done, and he sure as hell won't be back in NY, so I'm happy for that!

[STATUTORY]

Kobe has no concept of aging gracefully for the good of the team

That's just lazy thinking. ignoring present evidence the narrative defaults to Kobe should be submitting to the younger superstar. But their current play on the court has not at all indicated that Dwight is ready to takeover or at a level where he can demand Kobe to defer to him.

How can you on one hand argue that Dwight is compromised then still act like he should be the focal point of this team?

Dwight is just a piece of the puzzle here with 3 other players that are/were as good as Dwight at some point of their career and he needs to modify his game to fit in. If he was more open to pick and rolls and exploiting his speed with more of a faceup game then the situation of him and Pau coexisting wouldn't be so dire.

[Scoooter]

Look, Adelman is a hell of a coach, I've watched him coach for 20 or so years now, and he has adjusted to different rosters.

I think Adelman's a pretty good coach, but the pinnacle of his career was one Finals appearance over 20 years ago. What's so great about him that plenty of other guys don't have? He got jobbed out of a WCF series by the league? So did D'antoni.

D'Antoni had his moment in the sun, and the success wasn't so great that he can live off it. I place as much importance on coaching as anyone I've met...

When it suits your arguments you do. But as we've already established, the Knicks making the playoffs under D'antoni had nothing to do with him...unless you really do put "as much importance on coaching as anyone", else you'd be forced to give him some credit. You're entitled to any opinion you'd like, but don't expect me to respect an argument that isn't logically consistent.

...and D'Antoni in NY, and now LA is one of the worst high-profile coaches I've seen.

I say the same thing for Jerry Sloan. Two of the greatest to ever play the game, and he manages two good years out of a million.

Look at Melo now, an MVP candidate. Look at Woodson, he's been a REAL coach, and I'm excited about the Knicks for the first time in a long time.

I anticipate them flaming out in the playoffs, as is always the case with Melo and Woodson. The fizzle has already started compared to the first month or so. But I hope I'm wrong.

I doubt I'm qualified to be a coach, I'm a fucking fan. But with that being said, I'm an NBA fanatic with above average intelligence, and relative to other coaches D'Antoni is a bum. It's incredible, really. You'd think he'd have won a title or 2 considering how stubbornly he sticks to his philosophy, but whatever, his coaching career is almost done, and he sure as hell won't be back in NY, so I'm happy for that!

Everything's relative. Relative to "other" coaches Rick Adelman, George Karl, Jerry Sloan, Doc Rivers, et al are all bums. Just about everyone is a bum compared to Phil Jackson. I don't see how D'antoni, with multiple Conference Finals apearances, is anymore of a bum than some of the nameless losers who have been coaching teams like the Bucks and the Wizards and the Clippers for the last several decades.

[Scoooter]

yea he's actively waiting for Dwight to turn around just to bounce the ball off the back of his head for kicks. Or maybe it's cause Dwight's inability to get the ball of traditional PnR sets or post ups that's forcing Kobe to find alternative passing lanes.

Well that's not a very smart move.

[Scoooter]

That's just lazy thinking. ignoring present evidence the narrative defaults to Kobe should be submitting to the younger superstar. But their current play on the court has not at all indicated that Dwight is ready to takeover or at a level where he can demand Kobe to defer to him.

Except that anytime they've looked anything like a decent team this season has been when Kobe deferred to Dwight and Dwight had a big game. I'd say my "lazy thinking" tracks more closely to reality than your blind homerism.

How can you on one hand argue that Dwight is compromised then still act like he should be the focal point of this team?

I think his being compromised will get better over time. He can't string together multiple good games right now, but he's shown flashes.

Dwight is just a piece of the puzzle here with 3 other players that are/were as good as Dwight at some point of their career and he needs to modify his game to fit in. If he was more open to pick and rolls and exploiting his speed with more of a faceup game then the situation of him and Pau coexisting wouldn't be so dire.

I agree. Kobe isn't the only one who should make some changes. And someone, or multiple someones, needs to slap Dwight in the face for those free throws. Heinous.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I think Adelman's a pretty good coach, but the pinnacle of his career was one Finals appearance over 20 years ago. What's so great about him that plenty of other guys don't have? He got jobbed out of a WCF series by the league? So did D'antoni.

When it suits your arguments you do. But as we've already established, the Knicks making the playoffs under D'antoni had nothing to do with him...unless you really do put "as much importance on coaching as anyone", else you'd be forced to give him some credit. You're entitled to any opinion you'd like, but don't expect me to respect an argument that isn't logically consistent.

I say the same thing for Jerry Sloan. Two of the greatest to ever play the game, and he manages two good years out of a million.

I anticipate them flaming out in the playoffs, as is always the case with Melo and Woodson. The fizzle has already started compared to the first month or so. But I hope I'm wrong.


Everything's relative. Relative to "other" coaches Rick Adelman, George Karl, Jerry Sloan, Doc Rivers, et al are all bums. Just about everyone is a bum compared to Phil Jackson. I don't see how D'antoni, with multiple Conference Finals apearances, is anymore of a bum than some of the nameless losers who have been coaching teams like the Bucks and the Wizards and the Clippers for the last several decades.

Adelman has adjusted to different rosters. Compare those early 90's Blazers to the Kings. Hell, right now, he's doing more with less than D'Antoni could dream of. Since leaving Phoenix, he's done less with more. The guy is simply not a very good coach.

Oh, and are you defending favoring Lin over Melo? Cause I'd love to debate that.

[Robster89]

With all of these ignorant threads about Dwight, I feel it necessary to create my own. Anyone who actually WATCHED Dwight in Orlando knows these things, but here are some things that will prove this is NOT the same Dwight that averaged 23/14 in Orlando. He could create his shot, and he had to in Orlando. Can he right now? I don't know. He's nowhere near the athlete he was on a consistent basis, he's not playing as hard, and his coach is not putting him in a position to succeed, unlike Stan Van Gundy who was a fine coach, actually a better coach than his brother Jeff, and much better than Pringles.

Here are 2 ordinary games for 2011 Dwight where you can see him regularly creating his own shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaBfW...ex=197#t=1m09s

Some more from the same game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaBfW...ex=197#t=1m40s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaBfW...ex=197#t=2m05s

Not an unusual game for him by any stretch. And here's another game that was also by no stretch unusual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b8...ex=198#t=1m04s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b8...ex=198#t=1m11s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b8...ex=198#t=1m28s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b8...ex=198#t=2m00s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b8...ex=198#t=2m49s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b8...ex=198#t=3m00s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga1b8...ex=198#t=3m27s

Just 2 games...and by no means were they his best.

You can't average 23/14 by being spoonfed, especially without an above average playmaker. But that's just offense, his defense has been nowhere near where it was. He's consistently late on his rotations, so while he's among the leaders in blocks, this is not the Orlando Dwight defensively.

I question how long some of you kids have watched basketball, or how many teams you watch, because if you think Dwight could have the success he did in Orlando, and perform the way he has this year while being the same player, then you clearly don't know the game.

Oh, and D'Antoni does deserve a lot of blame. I watched him in NY, and the guy is a moron, don't try to dispute it. When he doesn't have a roster with one of the best PG ever in his prime running everything, he's clueless. Dwight's problems right now go beyond the coach, but he'd be better with just about any coach, and so would the Lakers.

That's really good analysis.
I'm a Laker fan, and I remember the 09 finals well.
I seem to recall that Dwight had worked with Hakeem during the offseason, and I was impressed with how much he had improved.
I agree with you that he is not the same, ... yet.
It still remains to be seem if he will get back to where he was.
I think Laker fans calling for him to be traded are nuts.
D'Antoni needs to go.
Bring Phil back by offering him a piece of ownership.

[Scoooter]

Adelman has adjusted to different rosters. Compare those early 90's Blazers to the Kings. Hell, right now, he's doing more with less than D'Antoni could dream of. Since leaving Phoenix, he's done less with more. The guy is simply not a very good coach.

Adelman is a good coach, I already said that. And he also hasn't done shit in 20 years.

D'antoni has been making adjustments, on the fly, and nothing the fans want him to do actually works. I haven't heard one cogent, insightful suggestion that the Lakers haven't attempted. Pau in the low post? Seen it. Meanwhile, the Nash pick and roll is still a killer, when they get to run it.

Oh, and are you defending favoring Lin over Melo? Cause I'd love to debate that.

I'm was defending the Knicks winning games over their prima donna, perennial-flame out purposely sabotaging the coach. Which is exactly what was going on this time last year. I tend to not tether myself to big names, I just want the Knicks to win. But to each his own.

[STATUTORY]

Except that anytime they've looked anything like a decent team this season has been when Kobe deferred to Dwight and Dwight had a big game. I'd say my "lazy thinking" tracks more closely to reality than your blind homerism.

It's a question of chicken and egg. You claim the games we have won was when kobe "deferred" to dwight causing dwight to have a big game, but it looks to me they are games where dwight is actually playing well and thus kobe is passing to him to exploit that advantage. I think Dwight' inconsistency is coming from him and not from kobe holding him back.

look at last 2 games, Kobe took a lot of shots relative to Dwight so it fits neatly into your construct of Kobe keeping Dwight down but in actuality it was Dwight's foul trouble that kept him out of the action. So even guys like Clarke had more shots than him.

[Scoooter]

It's a question of chicken and egg. You claim the games we have won was when kobe "deferred" to dwight causing dwight to have a big game, but it looks to me they are games where dwight is actually playing well and thus kobe is passing to him to exploit that advantage. I think Dwight' inconsistency is coming from him and not from kobe holding him back.

I'd say it's a combination of both. Because real life is complicated.

[Money 23]

It's a question of chicken and egg. You claim the games we have won was when kobe "deferred" to dwight causing dwight to have a big game, but it looks to me they are games where dwight is actually playing well and thus kobe is passing to him to exploit that advantage. I think Dwight' inconsistency is coming from him and not from kobe holding him back.

Donowrongbe

[Scoooter]

Lol.

[STATUTORY]

Donowrongbe

dude I seen you defend Space Jam as a cinematic masterpiece.

[Money 23]

dude I seen you defend Space Jam as a cinematic masterpiece.

It's up there with the likes of Citizen Kane, though. MJ got robbed of best actor in a sci-fi drama in 1996.

Get your Roger Ebert game up, son.