Harden vs Wade at 23 years old...

[maybeshewill13]

Meh, I think there'll never be enough difference between their offense for Harden to make up for Wade's defense. Don't get me wrong, I love Harden's game, but when it's all said and done I think Wade would have had the greater career.

[red1]

I am not arguing production I am saying in a vacuum or if they go up against the same teams with the same role on offense wade will always be the better finisher and harden will be the better jumpshooter

[Micku]

I am too crunk to think but there must be some context to the stats. Common sense tells me that young wade is the better finisher and harden is the superior jumpshooter and I will go with common sense over your stats that try to say otherwise

I don't know what to tell you then. If someone shot 40% from 3pt over a guy who shot 30% from 3pt shot, you'll say the guy with the higher percentage is the better 3pt shooter.

Same case here. It's as clear as day.

[Micku]

I am not arguing production I am saying in a vacuum or if they go up against the same teams with the same role on offense wade will always be the better finisher and harden will be the better jumpshooter

It's the opposite actually. Wade had the better jumpshot while the defense is live and Harden is the better finisher. It's amazing to think that, but that's what it is. The stats show it.

Wade is the playmaker if you are talking about driving and kicking it out. He did that more times than Harden. But he isn't the better finisher.

[red1]

link me the site you used for the stats

[Micku]

link me the site you used for the stats

I already did. It's basketball-reference.

Here is Harden shot chart of the year:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2013/

Just go to the shooting tab to check the percentage of different season.

[PJR]

http://youtu.be/rjKej92KcQs

http://youtu.be/wSoPh7k4lb0

Watch those, And tell me that Harden is on that level. I don't think so.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Harden is the more skilled scorer at this stage, primarily due to his jumper, and he mixes up his game better than Wade did at 23. Since Wade didn't have much of a jumper yet, he pretty much always went to the rim, though you couldn't stop him very often. That's the big difference, his athleticism and explosiveness. I don't see Harden becoming the defender Wade was, or peaking as high as Wade did in 2009 when he was mixing up his game more and shooting the ball very well. Wade could be considered a borderline top 5 player already, but Harden himself has definitely been top 10 this season. But Wade was probably the best player in the '05 playoffs before his injury in the ECF, and I'd be surprised if Harden did something like that, though he doesn't have the team for a deep playoff run in the West.

I don't see the same greatness in Harden as Wade.

[Money 23]

Exact same wingspan, exact same height in shoes, both mid 30's verticals, similar speed recorded in the sprints at pre draft. Both big, bulky 2 guards. They are hardly different.

I guess I was wrong, good looking at out.

[red1]

I already did. It's basketball-reference.

Here is Harden shot chart of the year:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2013/

Just go to the shooting tab to check the percentage of different season.

I took a quick look at the stats all and even though harden did shoot a higher percentage it is still obvious that wade was a better finisher at the rim. Wade>harden when it comes to layups and dunks and that is plain to see.

If I were to guess the reason why harden shot a higher percentage it would probably be due to the fact that wade slashed a lot more often and probably took a ton more difficult shots than harden ever did. Much the same way that kobe's fg percentage always stays in the mid 40's because of the way he is always taking tough shots instead of making it easy for himself I would guess a similar thing is going on here. Dwade shot a higher % as the years went by as well thought that was noteworthy. Right now we are going off of half a season for harden so who knows if his % will dip by the end.

[Micku]

Harden is the more skilled scorer at this stage, primarily due to his jumper, and he mixes up his game better than Wade did at 23. Since Wade didn't have much of a jumper yet, he pretty much always went to the rim, though you couldn't stop him very often. That's the big difference, his athleticism and explosiveness. I don't see Harden becoming the defender Wade was, or peaking as high as Wade did in 2009 when he was mixing up his game more and shooting the ball very well. Wade could be considered a borderline top 5 player already, but Harden himself has definitely been top 10 this season. But Wade was probably the best player in the '05 playoffs before his injury in the ECF, and I'd be surprised if Harden did something like that, though he doesn't have the team for a deep playoff run in the West.

I don't see the same greatness in Harden as Wade.

Before I checked the stats, I would think that too. It's amazing how the stats show the complete opposite. Harden actually don't have a good midrange jumper, but could shoot the 3. Meanwhile Wade had the better mid range jumper, especially at the 16-3pt where he did shot above 40% while Harden hasn't been above 40% for about two seasons. And he is better at the 10-15ft, but couldn't shoot the 3.

Harden is the better finisher than Wade was that year so far, but he is also the better FT shooter. That's the reason why he gets his points despite having a less FG%.

[Micku]

I took a quick look at the stats all and even though harden did shoot a higher percentage it is still obvious that wade was a better finisher at the rim. Wade>harden when it comes to layups and dunks and that is plain to see.

If I were to guess the reason why harden shot a higher percentage it would probably be due to the fact that wade slashed a lot more often and probably took a ton more difficult shots than harden ever did. Much the same way that kobe's fg percentage always stays in the mid 40's because of the way he is always taking tough shots instead of making it easy for himself I would guess a similar thing is going on here. Dwade shot a higher % as the years went by as well thought that was noteworthy. Right now we are going off of half a season for harden so who knows if his % will dip by the end.

Not when Wade was 23. Right now yes.

You can look it up. This is his layup stats when he was 23.

Wade 2004-05:
layups: 50.6%
dunks: 90.5%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2005/

Harden 2012-13:
layups: 58.8%
dunks: 100%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2013/

Granted, the season isn't over yet. So, it could go down. And you're right, it does seem like Wade slashed more and create plays and etc. But I don't think it really stops the whole Harden is a better finisher than Wade was.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Before I checked the stats, I would think that too. It's amazing how the stats show the complete opposite. Harden actually don't have a good midrange jumper, but could shoot the 3. Meanwhile Wade had the better mid range jumper, especially at the 16-3pt where he did shot above 40% while Harden hasn't been above 40% for about two seasons. And he is better at the 10-15ft, but couldn't shoot the 3.

Harden is the better finisher than Wade was that year so far, but he is also the better FT shooter. That's the reason why he gets his points despite having a less FG%.

Wade didn't attempt many mid-range jumpers so I don't read too much into those stats. I watched Wade a lot that year since it was Shaq's first in Miami, and regardless of stats, a jumper simply wasn't a big part of his game. He only attempted 4 shots per game from 16-23 feet, and just 2.3 from 10-15.

I started noticing Wade show more of a jumper in '06(especially during the playoffs) and not surprisingly, his attempts increased, even during the regular season to 5.4 from 16-23 and 6.4 attempts from there in the playoffs.

But you are right that Harden hasn't been much of a mid-range shooter.

[red1]

Not when Wade was 23. Right now yes.

You can look it up. This is his layup stats when he was 23.

Wade 2004-05:
layups: 50.6%
dunks: 90.5%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2005/

Harden 2012-13:
layups: 58.8%
dunks: 100%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2013/

Granted, the season isn't over yet. So, it could go down. And you're right, it does seem like Wade slashed more and create plays and etc. But I don't think it really stops the whole Harden is a better finisher than Wade was.

I dont know what to tell you, in the second paragraph of my response I gave you the reason why I believe harden shot a higher percentage. Wade was probably taking more difficult shots.

Needless to say it is pointless to argue that harden is a better finisher than dwade since dwade is one of the goat perimeter finishers and harden is not.

[Day La Ghetto]

Its threads like these that make me wonder what wade could of been done/doing without LeBron.right now his up and down play I think is in large part to motivation ,not age. I'm more interested in would you take current wade or harden if you had only 1 season and you were trying to win in all that 1 season,who would take there team further?I'm going with current wade,he's shown he can be that guy still,and everyone in the media has put him on the shelf as worse then harden, but you never hear anyone being scared of going against harden in the playoffs(yet anyways). People will trash wade but alot of them still give him that prop for being 1 guy that you're really afraid in the playoffs. 23/24 wade was really feared, harden you just don't get that feeling from him