Michael Jordan: The Puppeteer

[RRR3]

MJ is so great I bet he could beat LeBron one-on-one right now, even though he's 50 (andgar)

[LeBird]

[QUOTE=andgar923]because he scores more?

And @ doesn't come "near"

[Asukal]

You bring up a good point about his passing while driving or mid-air; he had the physicality that some of the great passers didn't. It made him more effective than he otherwise would be. But, his basketball IQ doesn't come near a Magic or a Bird, sorry.

I disagree with the bolded. I will say that this however, Magic>Bird>MJ when it comes to passing.

[andgar923]

The fact that he was doubled so often is why he probably could've had even more assists, but you've missed the point. Jordan racked up assists not because he had great vision (BB IQ) a la Magic or Bird, but because he was such a scorer (which was in large part due to his athleticism).

I have a hard time believing anyone who has seen all 3, and how they'd pass, would put Jordan on the same level as them. There is some ****ed up revisionism going on.

You were alluding to IQ, not passing.

I gave reasons why MJ's IQ was equaled to theirs. He doesn't lead his team to become the dynasty that it is if he didn't have their IQ.

He read the plays before they happened just like they did.

He made the right decisions just like they did.

He helped improve his teammates and turn around an organization unlike any other player possibly ever.

It's laughable to say he wasn't "close" to their IQ.

passing wise, he's just as good, don't get it twisted.

[LeBird]

IQ in reference to passing; not altogether. For example, I'd say in terms of creating - and taking - shots Jordan has a brilliant basketball mind. In terms of facilitating for others he doesn't.

And I wouldn't say Jordan made his teammates better anywhere near what Bird, and to a lesser extent Magic, did.

[andgar923]

IQ in reference to passing; not altogether. For example, I'd say in terms of creating - and taking - shots Jordan has a brilliant basketball mind. In terms of facilitating for others he doesn't.

And I wouldn't say Jordan made his teammates better anywhere near what Bird, and to a lesser extent Magic, did.

Another myth that gets regurgitated yet again.

Because I'm sure it was soooooo hard making McHale, Parrish, Kareem, Worthy and those other players better. I'm sure it was extremely tough to take franchises with a great foundation to the top, as opposed a mediocre one with a revolving door of coaches and players to the top.

Talk about revisionist history.

Do people forget how shitty Pip was?
The shitty teammates that MJ had for most of his early career, and to some degree even when he was winning?

As far as passing, it's far closer then you think.

Mj's assists would be even better if he had players worth passing too, specially in the middle. Imagine if he had McHale, Worthy, Kareem, Parrish, etc.etc.? the best consistent option he had was Grant.

His timing, court vision was right on their level. Not saying he was better, but let's not pretend that he wasn't "near" their level.

[AlphaWolf24]

Considering teh different era's...and different style's Bird , Magic and Mj played in...


- I can totally agree with Le Bird and other posters who say "Magic and Bird had a much higher basketball IQ and overall cerebral approach"..

- IMO it's not even close....Magic and Bird played basketball on a much different level/wave length then Jordan did.

- yes MJ did Dominate with pure physical will...Bird and Magic wre on a much higher level...almost orchestrating the entire game with mind and body...

- and considering how much Jordan struggled early in his career...and how Bird's Celtics mopped the floor with MJ's Bull's ( even when MJ played like a God he still got merked)....History proves this theory correct

[DatAsh]

Although he was a less willing passer and more scoring minded, I do think Jordan's passing skills were on par with that of Scottie Pippens. However, I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe that he is a better passer than Lebron or Bird, and I've seen the entire careers of all three players. I will concede that it is somewhat close, but there still exists a clear distinction between those two groups.

[Da_Realist]

MJ is my guy but he's not close to Bird in passing.

[LeBird]

Talk about revisionist history.

Bird affected the biggest turnaround in NBA history at the time without those stars. From the 2nd worst team to the best record in his Rookie year. Try again. Even Magic improved the team many games - although he did have a great teammate, his team wasn't gonna win shit without him - and won the title.

Look, Jordan was a very good passer (if somewhat unwilling at times); and I like some of the points you've brought up; but he isn't in that top echelon of passers with Bird or Magic. That's just fanboy nonsense.

[andgar923]

Although he was a less willing passer and more scoring minded, I do think Jordan's passing skills were on par with that of Scottie Pippens. However, I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe that he is a better passer than Lebron or Bird, and I've seen the entire careers of all three players. I will concede that it is somewhat close, but there still exists a clear distinction between those two groups.

Pippen aint better than MJ, never was never will. Mj's court vision and reaction are superior.

I'll take Bird over MJ that's fair.

But Bron? nope.

Bron takes too long, he's easy to read. One can easily read what his intentions are, and he isn't on the same IQ level that MJ, Bird, Magic and a few others are.

[andgar923]

Bird affected the biggest turnaround in NBA history at the time without those stars. From the 2nd worst team to the best record in his Rookie year. Try again. Even Magic improved the team many games - although he did have a great teammate, his team wasn't gonna win shit without him - and won the title.

Look, Jordan was a very good passer (if somewhat unwilling at times); and I like some of the points you've brought up; but he isn't in that top echelon of passers with Bird or Magic. That's just fanboy nonsense.

I stand corrected.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

He was a great great passer, but I can't say he was on a Bird or Magic level. Those two are definitely a level above. That's not an insult though, those two are 2 of the greatest passers ever. Michael was a great pass too, just not bird or Magic great.

[che guevara]

MJ is my guy but he's not close to Bird in passing.

Yeah, let alone Magic.

Stuff like this is why I can't take andgar seriously at all as a poster. 20% of the time he'll surprise you with great posts, but then there's shit like this that's just so stupid you can't take him seriously at all.

[L.Kizzle]

Drexler as passing >>>> Jordan.