'03 Duncan vs '12 Lebron?

[raprap]

It's Duncan. Anyone who says otherwise didn't watch the NBA back then.

Wow.

[TMT]

Wow.

Not saying there is a huge disparity or anything. But Duncan 03 edges out Lebron 12.

[D.J.]

Duncan easily. He was at his defensive peak.

[Duncan21formvp]

Duncan handily. Lebron needed a proven champion in order to win and also an injury to Derrick Rose otherwise would have lost to the Bulls that year.

[SouBeachTalents]

Duncan handily. Lebron needed a proven champion in order to win and also an injury to Derrick Rose otherwise would have lost to the Bulls that year.

Yeah, let's just gloss over the fact Dirk got injured

[Odinn]

Yeah, let's just gloss over the fact Dirk got injured

And also let's ignore the fact that the Spurs were leading the series by 2-1 and Duncan averaged 35/18/6/3 in those 3 games when Dirk was healthy. Idiot.

[ShawkFactory]

Duncan handily. Lebron needed a proven champion in order to win and also an injury to Derrick Rose otherwise would have lost to the Bulls that year.

There's no evidence in the history of either of these players that this would have happened.

[Odinn]

As for raw numbers;
Duncan; 24.7 ppg 15.4 rpg 5.3 apg 0.6 spg 3.3 bpg 3.2 tpg .529 fg .677 ft
LeBron; 30.3 ppg 9.7 rpg 5.6 apg 1.9 spg 0.7 bpg 3.5 tpg .500 fg .739 ft

As for advanced numbers;
Duncan; 34.9 eff - 28.4 per - .577 ts - ortg/drtg difference 24 (ortg/drtg difference of Spurs 6)
LeBron; 31.1 eff - 30.4 per - .576 ts - ortg/drtg difference 17 (ortg/drtg difference of Heat 8)

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Duncan was more valuable to his team than LeBron. Without Duncan, Spurs were not close to being a playoff team in the West at all. Everyone mentions how weak 2003 Nets were. But they were an elite defensive team and had elite defensive bigs. Just think about like this; Spurs without Duncan vs. Nets & Heat without LeBron vs. Thunder. Which one is worse?..
Also what happened to the Kings is the only thing you can make a case for having a easy road. Do not give me Dirk's injury. Dirk played 3 games, and Duncan outperformed Nowitzki 3 times. 35/18/6/3 in those 3 games.

Duncan's supporting cast was worse without a doubt. Duncan's competition was a bit weaker.
If we make 2 kind of ratios;
supporting cast / competiton; Duncan has the edge.
his performance / what his team needed to win; Duncan has the edge but slightly. (LeBron came up big in game 4 of Pacers series and game 6 of Celtics series. But overall, imo, Duncan has the edge.)

45-15-5 and 40-18-9-2-2 are 2 top-level games. People have short term memories. Aside from his 32-20-6-7-3 and 21-20-10-8 games, Duncan had 2 monstrous games; 40-15-7-1 and 34-24-6-6-2. As for top-level games; I'd say it's 4 to 2.

Lastly, as for "the glory" Duncan had four consecutive playoff games of 30+ points and 15+ rebounds. He is the only one which have made it since 1980. Also he broke the record for blocks in a NBA Final series.

Tim Duncan in 2003 Playoffs after 1st round; 27/15/5/3 over 18 games
Against;
the Lakers 28.0 ppg - 11.8 rpg - 4.8 apg - 1.3 bpg - 0.3 spg on .529 fg .702 ft .575 ts / 31.8 eff - 0.792 eff/m
the Mavs 28.0 ppg - 16.7 rpg - 5.8 apg - 3.0 bpg - 0.8 spg on .569 fg .638 ft .603 ts / 39.3 eff - 0.913 eff/m
the Nets 24.2 ppg - 17.0 rpg - 5.3 apg - 5.3 bpg - 1.0 spg on .495 fg .685 ft .546 ts / 37.0 eff - 0.840 eff/m
Overall 26.7 ppg - 15.2 rpg - 5.3 apg - 3.2 bpg - 0.7 spg on .531 fg .672 fg .575 ts / 36.1 eff - 0.850 eff/m

Including some monster performances like 37/16/4/2 series clinching game against the Lakers. 40/15/7/1 - 32/15/5/3 - 34/24/6/6/2, these 3 are the first 3 games against the Mavs. 32/20/6/7/3 against the Nets in opening game of the Finals. And his famous near quadruple-double, title-winning game 21/20/10/8. Set the record for block in the Finals (after it started to get counted) with 32 blocks.

He had one of the best, if not the best, 10+ game stretches in the playoffs. From game 4 of LAL series to game 1 of NJN series, in 10 games he averaged;
30.0 ppg - 15.9 rpg - 5.5 apg - 2.8 bpg - 0.9 spg on .579 fg .678 ft .620 ts / 40.6 eff - 0.946 eff/m

His game 1 in the NBA Finals was absurd from some pov. His ortg nearly doubled his dtrg in that game with 145-79.

When Duncan was on the court; the Spurs outscored their opponents by 1554-1414. (+7.8 per game)
When Duncan was off the court; the Spurs got outscored by their opponents with 178-218. (-2.2 per game)
That is directly 10 ppg differential. (I checked ever game log, so I value this direct number over BPM.)

There are 2 significant games in this regard;
- Game 4 against the Lakers. The Spurs lost the game by 4 points despite Duncan was +15 when he was on the court.
Last 3:27 of the 2nd quarter, when Duncan got benched the Spurs were leading by 16. The gap gets cut down to 7.
Last 2:54 of the 3rd quarter, the Spurs leading by 7. Duncan gets benched and the Lakers goes on a quick 14-3 series and the Lakers is up by 4 going into the 4th.
- Game 3 against the Mavericks. Even though it was a blowout game (Duncan had +31), the Spurs actually failed to score in 7 and a half minutes when he was off the court with 0-18 scoreboard. It shows how good his rotation players were.

Also Duncan scored 481 points and assisted 215 while he was on the court. 696 of 1554 points. Which makes it 44.8% for Duncan, getting directly involved.

Duncan had four consecutive playoff games of 30+ points and 15+ rebounds. He is the only one which have made it since 1980. The only other players who did it are Wilt (multiple times surely) and Kareem (1977 playoffs). That's it. Not Moses, not Shaq, not Hakeem.

One last thing. About his defense. https://on.nba.com/2BQ2YjM This is his 'opponent shooting' percentages. According to the link, 40.2% of shots went in against Duncan in 2003 playoffs. Put it to some perspective; it was 38.5% for defense specialist Big Ben who didn't worry about carrying his team on offense, in 2004 playoffs. (43.6% against LeBron in 2012 playoffs for another comparison.)