Scottie Pippen was NOT a 1B option

[Da_Realist]

Magic missed some games in 1982 and the Lakers were just fine without him.

Bird missed some games in 1981 or 1982 and the Celtics were just fine without him.

That's because they both left teams that still had youth, talent, leadership and championship experience. That's what Jordan left in 93.

[jlip]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...in-the-nba-now

You can't be serious. You just responded to comments made by NBA GMs and coaches made while Pippen was playing with comments made by a random fan some 14 years later on a site that's open to anyone who signs up?

How about what Pippen's teammates said then:
From Bill Wennington's book...

"My first season with the Bulls was the 1993-94 season, the first one Michael did not play because of his initial retirement. In that season I saw Scottie as No. 1, the top dog, the best player on the team. Scottie turned out to be a better No. 1, than any other No. 1 I ever played with, other than Michael....I played with a lot of players--Chris Webber, Mark Aguirre, Sam Perkins--Scottie was head and shoulders above all of those players in terms of leadership and what he stood for as a team basketball player...

...But what Scottie represented to me is a player whom I would pick 1st for my team every time.

...Scottie led that team ['93-'94 Bulls] to 55 wins...Maybe it's apples to oranges, but that season was an indication of what Scottie was capable of doing as a team leader."

http://books.google.com/books?id=Eip...page&q&f=false

pp. 15-17

[bwink23]

You can't be serious. You just responded to comments made by NBA GMs and coaches made while Pippen was playing with comments made by a random fan some 14 years later on a site that's open to anyone who signs up?

How about what Pippen's teammates said then:
From Bill Wennington's book...

"My first season with the Bulls was the 1993-94 season, the first one Michael did not play because of his initial retirement. In that season I saw Scottie as No. 1, the top dog, the best player on the team. Scottie turned out to be a better No. 1, than any other No. 1 I ever played with, other than Michael....I played with a lot of players--Chris Webber, Mark Aguirre, Sam Perkins--Scottie was head and shoulders above all of those players in terms of leadership and what he stood for as a team basketball player...

...But what Scottie represented to me is a player whom I would pick 1st for my team every time.

...Scottie led that team ['93-'94 Bulls] to 55 wins...Maybe it's apples to oranges, but that season was an indication of what Scottie was capable of doing as a team leader."

http://books.google.com/books?id=Eip...page&q&f=false

pp. 15-17

Who's arguing that Pippen wasn't the best player on the team??? DUH

[jlip]

1A means 2nd option

1B means 2nd option

It's just a way of being nice.

Did anyone ever think the reverse? That Jordan was 1A to Pippen? Don't think so...

Because that would be saying Jordan was the 2nd option. Which wasn't true.

That's true. But 99.9% of the players in NBA history would be a 1A, 1B, or 2nd option to MJ. I think what the OP is trying to say is that on a team where he was considered the best player, Pippen could not have been a successful 1st option/ Alpha male, which is just not the case.

[bwink23]

That's true. But 99.9% of the players in NBA history would be a 1A, 1B, or 2nd option to MJ. I think what the OP is trying to say is that on a team where he was considered the best player, Pippen could not have been a successful 1st option/ Alpha male, which is just not the case.

That is NOT what i'm saying....Pippen gets overrated for that one season alone...as if he took a band of scrubs to 55 wins...which is far from the truth.

[jlip]

Who's arguing that Pippen wasn't the best player on the team??? DUH

So you ignored the rest of the post saying that he was a better first option/ team leader than other players such as Chris Webber who in his prime was a 27/11/4 player? I didn't say that. Pippen's teammate did.

[bwink23]

That's true. But 99.9% of the players in NBA history would be a 1A, 1B, or 2nd option to MJ. I think what the OP is trying to say is that on a team where he was considered the best player, Pippen could not have been a successful 1st option/ Alpha male, which is just not the case.

Do i think Pippen could LEAD a team to a championship???


HELL NO!!

[bwink23]

So you ignored the rest of the post saying that he was a better first option/ team leader than other players such as Chris Webber who in his prime was a 27/11/4 player? I didn't say that. Pippen's teammate did.

Did Webber ever lead a team to a championship??

HELL NO!!

[jlip]

That is NOT what i'm saying....Pippen gets overrated for that one season alone...as if he took a band of scrubs to 55 wins...which is far from the truth.

I'm done after this, because I have to go. But isn't that the same thing we've heard about MJ? He supposedly carried scrubs and willed them single handedly 6 championships. If Pippen's '94 team was so loaded and deep, what does that say about the teams that MJ led then?

[jlip]

Did Webber ever lead a team to a championship??

HELL NO!!

So you're only a good leader if you lead a team to a championship then? OKaaay...

[TheMan]

This is just a terrible post, why are you downplaying Pippen? He was more of a ball distributor than a shoot first player, in essence, the Bulls PG.

How about making a thread about how Magic was overrated because he never won a ship without KAJ?

Aside from a particular someone who believes Scottie could be a 1A option, he wasn't even a 1B option. People want to sight the "55 win team" as if Scottie took trash to new heights or something....this was a 3-PEAT team with a GOAT coach in a proven system with now-experienced players in BJ Armstrong and Horace Grant. These guys had been together for a long time and proven themselves on the biggest stage. Scottie literally didn't do whole lot better than he did any other year, his team simply stepped to the plate as well. Scottie is getting far too much credit.

Just look at Phil's stance on the issue...Toni Kukoc made 4 game winners for the Bulls in 1994, one of them in the Knicks series. Phil drew up a play for Kukoc, which showed Phil's confidence in Scottie's "#1 option" abilities.....Scottie cried and took a seat, that's right....Took a seat in a heated and critical playoff game.... NO EXCUSES for that....that's your best player abandoning your team.

Let's not ignore the additions the Bulls made...Pete Myers was a SOLID defender, which this Bulls team won on defense, so he was an excellent fit on ONE SIDE of the ball. Throw in Europe's best player at the time in Toni Kukoc, Steve Kerr, Bill Wennington, and Luc Longley ( players who later would prove their worth with a 3-PEAT of their own), and you still have a formidable team, even minus the game's best all-time player. Is it really surprising at all?

Scottie was great, but looked better simply cuz he wasn't overshadowed on the floor. His team deserves just as much credit for stepping up as he did. BJ and Horace were having all-star seasons. Kukoc was clutch, and the role players did what they do. Does their success make Scottie a "#1 option", No....even Phil himself didn't believe it.

Too many fools are comparing them to the 1993 Bulls....try comparing them to the 1992 team and see what you get, cuz the 1993 Bulls were WORN OUT. Without Jordan, there wasn't that pressure to succeed where anything less than a championship would be failure. No one expected one, and it didn't happen. A second round exit to a short-handed Knicks squad isn't a championship no matter how you want to slice it.

The Bulls in 1992 won 67 games to 57 in 1993....with essentially the same team, same core. So were they really that much worse or no??? Now take a look at the Bulls in 1995 when you strip away the core from the original 3-PEAT. 34-31. Not impressive.

Giving Scottie all the credit is STUPID, when he had much to work with. Look what he did when he went to Houston, and then to the Blazers....NUFF SAID. Scottie was a great #2, but he was NEVER a #1 option player, and never showed he could be. He didn't put crappy teams on his back for stretches, he's never had a crappy team

[FindingTim]

u out ur mind OP

[Soundwave]

I don't really look at Pippen as a 1B option either to be honest.

If he was a 1B option the scoring split would be more like 27 ppg for MJ and 25 ppg for Pippen.

And Pippen would have hit more game winners/clutch shots, but basically it was Jordan doing all that every year.

The one year Jordan really needed Pippen to step up and be the "man" was in 1995 when he was coming back from baseball and Scottie couldn't do it then.

LeBron and Wade are 1A/1B options.

1A/1B to me implies a "you took the game winner last night, so tonight I got it. You scored 30 last night, tonight I'll score 30" etc. etc. That's not really how Jordan/Pippen were though, there was a clear separation between the two.

[bwink23]

I'm done after this, because I have to go. But isn't that the same thing we've heard about MJ? He supposedly carried scrubs and willed them single handedly 6 championships. If Pippen's '94 team was so loaded and deep, what does that say about the teams that MJ led then?

He says Jordan carried a bunch of scubs???

They had a GREAT team...what Jordan did was mold and shape that team with his influence. That core was young and inexperienced during Jordan's years...Jordan's DNA was all over that team.

BIG DIFFERENCE. Jordan didn't always have to carry them, but he could carry them offensively for long stretches. Pippen could NOT. Nor was Pippen a true clutch performer....that also is a BIG DIFFERENCE.

I don't know where you get your info, but Bulls fans from back in the day know the team was great. But Jordan would often put them on his back when needed. By the time Pippen had his chance, Jordan's (and Phil's) influence was already in full force.

[bwink23]

So you're only a good leader if you lead a team to a championship then? OKaaay...

When is this about LEADING..it's about being a #1 option.

Many players can LEAD...it's the results of your leadership that count....I'm not arguing that Scottie wasn't a great leader...i'm saying he's not that alpha-#1 who's gonna put a team on his back in the most dire of situations..

He was NEVER that guy....