The Four Permanent Members of G.O.A.T. Discussion

[TheMan]

Fixed

PERMANENT MEMBERS OF G.O.A.T. DISCUSSION


Jeremy Lin, nuff said

WILT - MJ - KAREEM - RUSSELL

This isn't in any kind of order - they just need to be there:


Wilt - the MDE (most dominant ever). The rift between him and everyone else was so wide it boggles the mind - he dominated competition more than anyone in the history of the NBA and yes that includes Shaq - The record books - The positive impact he had on a developing NBA - The numerous basketball rule-book changes to stop him - and the almost unanimous testimony from his peers that he was the "best" strongest/most unstoppable/greatest individual athlete they've ever seen etc - It isn't about rings for Wilt (though he did finally win 2 rings as the clear-cut Finals MVP's). If he wasn't asked to change his game, he'd have a stupefying career ppg - If more stats were tracked he'd have even more mind boggling records. Changing his game for his teams doesn't hurt his reputation it helps it. He settled for what would eventually be a mere virtual ppg tie with MJ to get those 2 rings - he aint half bad.




The second one is obvious to all IH fan's because he's the most recent on this list and I assume most people here are young but old enough to remember at least the 2nd 3-peat series. Two 3-peats have something to do with him being here, lol, and most importantly of all IMHO it was his "complete"-ness as a player. He had very few flaws you could ever exploit in the beginning of his career and the ones he did have he seemed to work at and correct until he really had none. The "complete" game he had and the intense will too win wasn't entirely new he took that page out of Oscar Robertson's book - The Big-O may have been the first "complete" player before MJ but... once those 6 rings instead of one and those individual accolades kept pouring in - MJ's "greatness" raised the bar for all non-centers... In addition to those 6 rings, statistically and defensively he's almost become the Wilt Chamberlain of NBA guards. Highest PPG average of all-time.




Kareem dominated at every level. Period. Skyhook, period. Another player that caused basketball rule changes. 3 straight HS championships 3 straight NCAA championships nearly undefeated, 6 NBA championships - countless individual accolades include most points in NBA history... Just wikipedia him to get the rough idea. Study his games on film, including his battle with Willis Reed in the 70's it's on youtube. You absolutely CAN NOT leave him out of the discussion. Among the most complete centers in NBA history with very few weaknesses to his game. He's literally every bit as dominant relative to his competition as Shaq was during his prime and that's something the younger IH members might not realize - the dominance relative to his peers of Shaq yet he accomplished a lot more than Shaq did - the amount of times he won basketball titles in his career are second only to the next guy.




Bill Russell. Yet another man shaping basketball's rules in order to slow him down. More rings than fingers. 2x NCAA champ, Olympic Gold Medalist, 11 rings in 13 NBA seasons. (that's 14 titles in 15 years...) The best winner in basketball history, period. The integral glue to the most dominant dynasty in NBA history, period. Among the most ruthless, intimidating psychologically superior defensive fortresses in the history of the NBA. He simply did whatever it took to help the Celtics win and he convinced himself, his teammates, and the league that the Celtics could not lose. Offensively he wasn't concerned, he had support to take care of that but he also produced when his team needed him too - this is often overlooked. Defensively in the low-post he was as close as anyone from that time to Wilt Chamberlain, and in the high post he was hands down the best by a wide margin. He and/or Wilt are the two best rebounding centers in NBA history, and Bill is the better playoff rebounder. Bill's game almost always elevated in the playoffs and finals. He'd be #1 or #2 in blocked shots of all time (competing with Wilt) if the stats were recorded, and he'd additionally have have more steals than most any NBA big man in history - as can be observed in archived newspaper stats - his agility and defense in the high-post can't be understated, he had Olympic potential as a track athlete. His defense and intangibles also cannot be overstated. He's probably the best defensive big man, perhaps even the best defensive player, in NBA history. These things absolutely outweighed his offensive value, if you don't think so just look at how much he won.



All four should always be GOAT candidates. You can add more if you'd like, but these four are cemented in the discussion and if they aren't you probably don't know enough NBA history to be trying to figure out who the Greatest Of ALL Time is.

[CavaliersFTW]

Fixed

make that 5 - muh bad!

[rodman91]

Wilt played in an inferior era and only won 2 championships

Magic - 5 championships
Kobe - 5 championships
Mikan - 5 championships
Duncan - 4 championships
Bird - 3 championships

I'm sorry regular season stats in a inferior era doesn't make up for his failures in the Playoffs

Pippen: 6 championships.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Pippen: 6 championships.

You're so smart. You forgot Horry - 7

[alenleomessi]

MJ,Kareem,Bird,Magic

[CavaliersFTW]

You're so smart. You forgot Horry - 7

Satch Sanders 9 rings.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Satch Sanders 9 rings.

yeah because he is on a Shaq/Kareem/Magic/Kobe/Bird level yup good job

[bwink23]

RINGS is probably one of the most LAME arguments of all time. Oscar Robertson didn't get a ring until teaming with Jabbar, no one questions his abilities. Your impact on the game on and off the court and the total respect of your peers as the best player is far more important than the team accomplishments.

[Legends66NBA7]

I agree with OP on those 4.

They are all at that level of GOAT discussion for the majority of their prime.

I would also consider Magic and Bird too. And at his absolute prime/peak, Shaq might be in that argument as well, IMO.

[B]

Spare this dude because the game is CLEARLY 5 on 1.... well, at least in the league he watches right?

Then WhyTF have a GOAT thread? You want to argue GOAT but fall back on basketball is a team game when one of your GOAT candidates is being disqualified for post season failure.

Pick a lane and stay in it, either rings and post season success count or it doesn't. Your clearly stated ring totals in your OP but once that's used against Wilt you say it's a team sport and that Wilt's lack of numbers in the post season shouldn't be used against him.

[Legends66NBA7]

RINGS is probably one of the most LAME arguments of all time. Oscar Robertson didn't get a ring until teaming with Jabbar, no one questions his abilities. Your impact on the game on and off the court and the total respect of your peers as the best player is far more important than the team accomplishments.

Yes, context matters, but for these 4 players right here... they are more than above it.

Chamberlain might have 2 rings, but he anchored 2 of the greatest teams of all-time with his brilliant dominance.

Kareem's longevity is incredible and become the oldest Finals MVP (probably has 3 in reality) ever and was one 3 of the greatest teams of all-time, IMO.

Jordan off course went 6 for 6 (as well winning Finals MVP 6 times) and absolutely dominated his first 3. 4th one he came down to earth by a lot from 91-93 standards and the last 2 had some epic moments, but not exactly the same level of 91-93.

Russell is the only common player of all 11 titles. He is considered the best player of the finals in 8 or 9 of those title runs and 9 of those titles he was the best player. He even player coached the final 2 championship teams to titles. If Finals MVP existed from the beginning of his career, he would clearly have the most of anybody (hence the Finals MVP's name is after him).

I do recall Oscar's name being part of GOAT discussion by his peers though...

[Deuce Bigalow]

RINGS is probably one of the most LAME arguments of all time. Oscar Robertson didn't get a ring until teaming with Jabbar, no one questions his abilities. Your impact on the game on and off the court and the total respect of your peers as the best player is far more important than the team accomplishments.

[B]

RINGS is probably one of the most LAME arguments of all time. Oscar Robertson didn't get a ring until teaming with Jabbar, no one questions his abilities. Your impact on the game on and off the court and the total respect of your peers as the best player is far more important than the team accomplishments.

Lebron fan?

Rings count because
A. It's why they play the games and when discussing GOAT its a determining factor in separating the talented player and the winning player.
and
B. In basketball one player can have such a massive effect on both ends of the floor.
This isn't football where a QB has zero impact when the defense is on the field. A QB can have the game of his life and still losses because his defense had the worst game of the season.

In basketball a player like MJ can control every aspect of the game because of his skill set on offense and defense, it makes life easier for his team as he carries the load, suddenly the guy who was a 30% shooter is a 40% shooter from behind the arc because that GOAT player is commanding all the attention.

[bwink23]

[QUOTE=B

[LakersReign]

The very fact that the OP started a GOAT thread, then turned right around and tried to include Lin, only after a few games. Tells me all I need to know about his level of understanding of the game. He really has none.







Moving on