The 30-5-5 Club

[Deuce Bigalow]

It just amazes me how fans are being groomed to accept mediocrity. A 20-5-5 season as some kind of huge accomplishment?

In baseball, a "quality start" is something like a 6 IP, 3 ER performance. And a "workhorse" pitcher throws 200 IP. What happened to the pitchers that used to routinely throw 20+ CGs, and 300+ IP?

In football, a 1000 yard rushing season is considered a benchmark. True, it WAS signifcant... in a 12 game season. But over the course of 16 games? Wow, a RB has to rush for 60 yards a game to get to 1000!

In the NBA every so often I will read about player "x" with a string of double-double games. DOUBLE-DOUBLE games??? So now we are led to believe that a player who throws up a 10-10 game is doing something remarkable?

And now, given the hype that a 20-5-5 season generated, it is only a matter of time when a 10-5-5 season will be considered a "benchmark."

Maybe it's just folks like myself, who actually grew up in the 60's, and who have followed sports for 50 years, who actually remember what a truly impressive stat-line looked like.

1 20-5-5 is not really that impressive, for a rookie that is though
2. You were saying that if Wilt or Oscar had a game like that it would be horrible
I've seen on NBA TV games from the 60s, awkward as ****, no way they even come close to doing a fraction of that in todays NBA

[DMV2]

1 20-5-5 is not really that impressive, for a rookie that is though
2. You were saying that if Wilt or Oscar had a game like that it would be horrible
I've seen on NBA TV games from the 60s, awkward as ****, no way they even come close to doing a fraction of that in todays NBA

Watch pre-80's NBA clips is like watching a pick-up game at your local YMCA basketball gym.

All those legends put up so-called "unbreakable numbers" wouldn't be able to do in today's game nor during the 90's.

[33teeth]

It just amazes me how fans are being groomed to accept mediocrity. A 20-5-5 season as some kind of huge accomplishment?

He was a rookie

[swi7ch]

how can rondo score 31 pts? did the game go to triple overtime?

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

how can rondo score 31 pts? did the game go to triple overtime?

Not even his career high. And neither of the games went into overtime.

[KG215]

I remember the hype that the Kings' Tyreke Evans was getting when he was averaging a 20-5-5 a couple of seasons ago.

That would have been among the worst games in Oscar's first five seasons, and Chamberlain would have been roasted by the press after a game like that.

He was getting "the hype" because he was a rookie averaging 20-5-5 and it wasn't even that much hype.

But I think we can all agree, modern age players are terrible in comparison to the stars of the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

[BlackJoker23]

Also KAJ in '72-'73. After a disappointing playoffs, he came back better than ever the following year.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STrKonJGP-U#t=5m17s



Sports Illustrated - January 21, 1974

The main reason for the Bucks' success has been, of course, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who is nothing less than the best pro player. Never selfish in the past, Abdul-Jabbar has become even more generous this season, shooting less, scoring fewer points (25.5 ppg, down from 30.2 in 1972-73) and passing off more frequently to cutting teammates from his high vantage point in the low post. When he does fire, he has a wider array of shots at his command. The conventional defense against Abdul-Jabbar has been to block him from curling from the left side of the lane into the middle for his deadly sky hook, thereby forcing him to take turnaround jumpers or to abandon the left post for the right, from which he shoots the hook with less accuracy. In the game at Chicago, the obsolescence of that thinking was clear. Of his nine baskets, Abdul-Jabbar made only one from the left, and that a jumper. He also has added flexibility to his defensive game, wandering farther and more fervently afield to help the Bucks cut their defensive average by almost a point per game. That is no mean feat since Milwaukee was second in the league last season, allowing an average of 99 points.

lol at this fakkit and his buttbuddy gaylauber. take your old era trash somewhere else

[jlauber]

Watch pre-80's NBA clips is like watching a pick-up game at your local YMCA basketball gym.

All those legends put up so-called "unbreakable numbers" wouldn't be able to do in today's game nor during the 90's.

Take a 38 year old Kareem for instance, in the 85-86 season. 33 ppg on .634 shooting against Hakeem, including games of 42 and 46 (on 21-30 shooting.) And the same week he plastered Hakeem with that 46 point outburst, he shelled Ewing by a 40-9 margin (outshooting him 15-22 to 3-17.)

I bet you don't even know the name Nate Thurmond. In 50+ H2H games, he held Kareem to a HIGH game of 34 points. He also outscored him in playoff series, and held him to three straight playoff series of .486, .405, and .428 shooting. And yet a 38-41 year old Kareem shot .599 against a 23-26 year old Hakeem.

I see players like 6-7 Ben Wallace, or 6-6 Chuck Hayes manning the center position, and neither could shoot from five feet. I watched the great DeAndre Jordan last night. No offensive SKILLS whatsoever.

And a 37 year old white guy winning the assist title; a 7-0 white guy winning the blocks title; and a 6-9 white guy running away with the rebounding title. What is that? The 50's?

Now, you watch YouTube footage of Kareem, Lanier, Cowens, Reed, McAdoo, and Chamberlain. And I'm supposed to believe THOSE guys would be playing at the local YMCA???

You had better provide some actual research before you post this nonsense.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Which was the best individual game out of these 3, then? I'm gonna go with LeBron, I think, even though Rondo's was slightly more statistically impressive imo.

[EricGordon23]

Let's go E.J win this thread!

[brownmamba00]

Take a 38 year old Kareem for instance, in the 85-86 season. 33 ppg on .634 shooting against Hakeem, including games of 42 and 46 (on 21-30 shooting.) And the same week he plastered Hakeem with that 46 point outburst, he shelled Ewing by a 40-9 margin (outshooting him 15-22 to 3-17.)

Didn't Hakeem drop 40 on Kareem in the playoffs going in his second year in the league? I think he did

[jlauber]

Didn't Hakeem drop 40 on Kareem in the playoffs going in his second year in the league? I think he did

Wow! A 23 year old Hakeem outscoring a 38 year old Kareem in the '86 WCF's by a 31 ppg to 27 ppg margin!

I wonder what kind of a bloodbath it would have been had a 23 year old Kareem, who averaged 31.7 ppg, 16.0 rpg, shot .574, won the MVP and the FMVP, gone up against a 38 year old Hakeem????

Incidently, Hakeem TRIED to guard Kareem in the '86 regular season, and after Kareem scored at will against him, the Rockets finally put Sampson on Kareem (with double help from Hakeem) in the WCF's.

[jlauber]

Watch pre-80's NBA clips is like watching a pick-up game at your local YMCA basketball gym.

All those legends put up so-called "unbreakable numbers" wouldn't be able to do in today's game nor during the 90's.

Do you think basketball was invented in 1980?

It was created in the 1890's for cryingoutloud. Colleges were playing it in the 1890's. There were PRO leagues as far back as the 1920's. And much of it is the essentially the same. Same size hoop. Same size court. Same number of players.

True, there have been some major refinements, but they have been few and far between. The two biggest were the advent of the 24 second clock in the 50's, and the 3pt shot in the late 70's (actually the ABA was using it in the 60's.)

The rest of the rules changes had very little effect on the overall game. Offensive and defensive goal-tending (which came about BEFORE Wilt came into the league.) The widening of the lane (TWICE, and it had absolutely ZERO effect on Chamberlain.) Zone defenses, which colleges have been playing for years, and once again, had little effect on the PRO game.

Zach Randolph? I saw him playing in the 60's (Willis Reed.) Kevin Love? He was playing in the 60's (Jerry Lucas.) Jason "White Chocolate" Williams? "Pistol Pete" Maravich was a FAR superior version, and he was playing college ball in the 60's. Even Bob Cousy in the 50's was doing everything that Williams was doing in 00's. Blake Griffin? Check out 6-6 Gus Williams in the 60's. Ben Wallace? Russell was a taller, more athletic, and more skilled player, and he was dominating in the 60's. Shaq? Chamberlain was Shaq 50 years ago. Nate Robinson? Calvin Murphy was a much better version, and he was scoring 38 ppg in college in the 60's.

High-flying players? Baylor, Hawkins, Dr. J, Dr. K, David Thompson, and Gus Johnson...just to name a few.

Long range shooters? Lucas, Jon McGlocklin, Barry, and Flynn Robinson were just some of the players who were hitting two-point shots from what is now 3pt range.

And players like Dr. J, Gilmore, Moses, and Kareem were no more dominant in the 70's, than they were in the 80's. How come? Wasn't 1980 the year that the NBA was formed?

The FACT is, you can go back to any year, even as far back as the early 60's, and the great players of that era, who would play into the 70's, were just as dominant in either decade. Same with those from the late 60's thru the late 70's. And so on. Go ahead. Give me a SINGLE season in which YOU think that the NBA became what we see today, and I will go back to just the season before, and PROVE YOU WRONG.

Who was the league MVP in the 79-80 season? Kareem...who came into the league in 1969. The leading scorer? The same George Gervin who came into the league in 72-73. The elading rebounder? Little known Swen Nater, who turned pro in 72-73.

How about '81? Dr. J, who starred in the ABA in the early 70's. Leading scorer? Adrian Dantley, who was playing in the NBA in mid-70's. The leading rebounder? Moses Malone, who was dominating in the 70's, and who would win an MVP in '83. Leading shot blocker? Little known George Johnson, who was a key piece in the Warrior's 74-75 title. Leading FG% shooter? Gilmore, who struggled far more in the 70's.

How come? How come the players who came into the league in the 80's just didn't completely take over the game? Of course Magic and Bird were the best players in the 80's...but they got BETTER as the decade went by. How come? How come the they didn't get WORSE as these so-called "better players" continued to come into the NBA?

Were defenses better in the 80's than in the 60's and 70's? Explain to me why Kareem had EIGHT straight seasons in the 80's of .564 or better, and his FOUR highest occured in the 80's. Hell, he not only shot his career-high in the 80's, at .604, he shot as high as .599 at age 37. And aside from his last two seasons, at ages 40 and 41, his worst shooting seasons were in the 70's. A PRIME Kareem shot .539, .529, .518, and even .513 (at age 27.) And he shot FAR worse against players like Thurmond and Chamberlain, than Hakeem and Ewing.

Gilmore, at age 27, and in his prime in the 70's, had a season of 18.6 ppg on .522 shooting. At age 37 he was averaging 19.1 on .623 shooting. His high FG% season in the 70's was .575. He had SIX seasons of over .600 in the 80's, including .652 and .670.

Player-for-player, who played in both decades, shot considerably better in the 80's. My god, 30-52 teams were shooting .504, and entire TEAMs were shooting .548 in the decade of the 80's.

Yes, the players of today are generally taller (but only by 1-2 inches on average, over those of the 60's.) They are generally more athletic (not that athleticism necessarily makes a great basketball player...just look at Javale McGee and James White.) They even MIGHT be more skilled (that is really debateable...even Bill Sharman was shooting .932 from the line in 1959.) In any case, the differences have not been dramatic. In fact they have been marginal.

And, one more time, am I supposed to believe that a Chamberlain, who was nearly 7-2, (and who would be listed at 7-3 in TODAY's NBA), with a 7-8 wingspan, and a 40+" vertical, with 500 lb bench-press strength, with sprinter's speed, and a solid outside game of 15+ feet...would NOT be dominating in this era of the least-skilled, worst rebounding, centers in the history of the NBA?

Of course, we KNOW that the BEST centers of the 80's were just CRUSHED by an aged Kareem. And we KNOW that a PRIME Kareem never came close to dominating many of the SAME centers that a PRIME Chamberlain just MURDERED. So, what does that tell you?

[The Iron Fist]

Big O a top 10 player of all time. What he did was legendary and wont be duplicated as easily as he did it.

I'll take the 30-5-5 club.

[jlauber]

While I don't have Oscar in my top-10, there are MANY that do. And one more time...the man averaged a 30-10-10 over the course of five straight SEASONS...COMBINED! Give me a list of the other NBA players who ever averaged it over the course of even ONE season.