Is Wilt Chamberlain's 50.4ppg season overrated?

[32Dayz]

I suck Kobe's dic* until my rep turns green.

Congratulations.

Everytime this fool speaks he embarrasses himself.

Back to the basement loser.

oh and 2x Lulz for you caring about rep.

^^^ No Life Loser xD.

BJ's Rep in life : Friendless, Broke, Basement Dwelling Loser.

How many multiple red bars would represent that?

Plz dont kill yourself.

[BlackJoker23]

everytime i speak i make all the retards in the world proud

my mother gagged on shaqs d1ck repeteadly

she was later raped and out came a mental obese midget

thats cool kid. make the forum proud and cut ur fingers o u cant type anymore

[oolalaa]

I have always found it fascinating that Wilt was labeled a "ball hog", and "selfish", and a "stats-padder", and yet, he did whatever his COACH's asked him to do.

How many other "greats" changed their overall play as often as Chamberlain did in his career? He came to a LAST PLACE team, and was asked to single handedly carry those crappy rosters...by his COACH's. Why? Because if Wilt did not shoot, the odds dropped to about 35-40% that his teammates would make their shots.

I have posted the numbers before, but in Wilt's first six post-seasons, covering his first seven seasons (his cast of clowns teammates in his 62-63 season were so inept, that even his monumental one-man show was not enough to get them into the playoffs...although he did get that same basic roster to the Finals the very next season), his teammates collectively shot.412 (and he got them to a game seven, one point loss against the 62-18 Celtics in the ECF's), .382, .380, .354 (and he STILL got them to the ECF's, where they lost a game seven by two points), .352, .352 (on a 55-25 team BTW), and an unbelieveable .332 in those post-seasons.

Not only that, but Chamberlain had some truly staggering post-season rebounding numbers. He was almost always getting 40+% of his team's rebounds, and in the '63-64 post-season, he had 40.7%; in the 64-65 post-season, it was at an eye-popping 47.1%; and in 65-66, it was at 45.6%. Find me the post-seasons where Kareem, or Shaq, or Hakeem, or Duncan, or Howard, or even Rodman, came close to those numbers.

If anything, Wilt passed TOO much early in his career. For example, in his 62-63 season, when he averaged 44.8 ppg on a then-record .528 FG%, he averaged 3.4 apg, ...with his teammates collectively shooting .412 (and the WORST team in the league shot .427.) How many assists did Wilt LOSE by passing to those inept shooters?

And for those that claim that his "selfishness" hurt his team's...how about his 65-66 season, when he led his Sixers to the BEST RECORD in the league (55-25.) All he did that season was average a league-leading 33.5 ppg, a league-leading 24.6 rpg, and a then record .540 FG% (in a league that shot .433), as well as handing out 5.2 apg.

Of course, as we all know, Wilt was asked to become more of a balanced facilitator in his 66-67 season. He only took 14 FGAs per game that season, scoring 24.1 ppg on an unfathomable .683 FG% (in a league that shot .441), with 24.2 rpg, and a whopping 7.8 apg. He would still occasionally pour in a 40+ point game, including the league high that season, of 58 points, on 26-34 shooting (as well as a 43 point game on 18-18 shooting.) The result? A 68-13 season, and a dominating world title.

He played almost exactly the same way in his 67-68 season, when he again led the Sixers to the best record in the league, at 62-20. He averaged 24.3 ppg, 23.8 rpg, and shot .595...as well as leading the league in assists, at 8.6 apg. It was also the highest "non-Russell" Defensive Win Share season in NBA history (7th all-time.) And, while he once again cut back his shooting dramatically, he still had time to post games of 52, 53, 53, and even a 68 point game that season.

He had an incompetent coach in his 68-69 season, BUT, he still what that idiot asked of him. He deferred to the shot-jacking of teammate Elgin Baylor, and ultimately that philosophy cost the Lakers a title in the Finals. Baylor was simply awful, shooting .385 in the post-season, including 8-22 in game seven of the Finals (a two point loss), while Chamberlain was shackled by his coach, and reduced to 13.9 ppg on .545 shooting in the playoffs.

His new coach in the 69-70 season came in and asked Wilt to become the focal point of the offense, and Wilt responded by scoring 32.2 ppg on 60% shooting in his first nine games. He had games of 33, 35, 37, 38, 42, and 43 points in those nine games, and another 25-25 game on 9-14 shooting, against Kareem. Unfortunately, he shredded his knee in that 9th game, and was never quite the same after that. Even so, he came back way ahead of schedule, and hung the only 20-20 .600 Finals in NBA history, with a seven game series of 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and .625 shooting against the Knicks.

In his 71-72 season, his new coach (yes, another one) asked him to concentrate on defense, rebounding, and igniting a blistering fast break that just annihilated the NBA that season. Behind his league-leading rebounding, and his first-team all-defense (and he would surely have won DPOY had the award existed), he led the Lakers to a 69-13 record (including 33 straight wins), and an overwhelming title. BTW, he also won the FMVP that season.

He pretty much played the same way in his very last season, when he again led the Lakers to the Finals, with a 60-22 record. However, the injury-riddled Lakers lost four close games to the Knicks. Wilt led the league in rebounding that season, as well as again being voted first team all-defense, and he set a FG% mark of .727 that will probably never be broken...all in his LAST season. And amazingly, in the post-season, he played 47.1 mpg in his 17 playoff games, and averaged 22.5 rpg (in a league that averaged 50.6 rpg per team), which is the last time any player ever cracked 20 rpg in the post-season (and the next best since was Kareem's 17.3 rpg in '77.) And, in his very LAST game, Chamberlain had a 23 point, 9-16 shooting, 21 rebound game.

Stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats and some more STATS!!

BASKETBALL IS NOT BASEBALL!!

The best players are not necessarily the ones with the best stats. You know this. You just choose to ignore it when talking about Wilt.

We all know Wilt was a box score stuffer (especially in the regular season) and a great all round player. But, we question his intangibles. We question his leadership. We question his clutchness. We question his drive to win. The sum of all these things are undeniably more important than stats.

Take off your rose tinted spectacles jlauber...

[millwad]

Congratulations.

Everytime this fool speaks he embarrasses himself.

Back to the basement loser.

oh and 2x Lulz for you caring about rep.

^^^ No Life Loser xD.

BJ's Rep in life : Friendless, Broke, Basement Dwelling Loser.

How many multiple red bars would represent that?

Plz dont kill yourself.

Haha, you're funny. LMAO at you for calling someone else for a basement loser when you average 20 posts per day a la licking Shaq balls. That's the definition of a loser..

Now go outside and play with your imaginary friends while convincing yourself that your posts are top notch and that you're tight with Shaq..

TADAAA!

[305Baller]

Wilt, even against total scrubs would still have achieved an amazing feat of athletical endurance that has never been matched at any level.

[La Frescobaldi]

You see that's where guys like you fail to understand something so simple. I didn't say Wilt will not dominate in the 80s, he would be great in any era. What I was disputing was Jlauber's mindset of robotic thinking, where if Wilt shot 50% in a 42% era, he'd AUTOMATICALLY shoot 57% in a 48% era. Basketball is not just about stats, there's a lot of other factors involved. What advancements in the game would Wilt benefit from 25 years later?

25 years after 1962 would be 1987.
* The league was writhing in cocaine problems.
* MJ was in his physical prime, with his greatest year, 37 ppg - the first since Chamberlain to score more than 3000 points in a season - & his first time getting past the first playoff round.
* Barkley was storming the league
* Celtics & Lakers were still ruling the Finals, just as they did in the 60s.
* Future Hall of Famers...........
Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, James Worthy, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Moses Malone, Julius Erving, Isiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins, Charles Barkley, Akeem Olajuwon, Clyde Drexler, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Alex English, Patrick Ewing, Adrian Dantley, Joe Dumars, and Dennis Rodman.

Kareem, Parish, Moses, Olajuwon, Ewing. I notice that list (from Wikipedia) is missing A Train.

3 point line has permanently stretched the court, leaving the middle open for even an aged center like Kareem to dominate


What time is Chamberlain on? The Warriors? That was a team all right...... 21-61, Sleepy Floyd, Chris Mullin.... Chamberlain would put up lots of numbers with that team.

The Sixers? Dr. J's last year, Barkley & Cheeks.... World B. Free ......

The Lakers? A 1962 Wilt would definitely and permanently bench 87 Jabbar and their fast break would be unbelievable


Great matchups no question.

[jlauber]

Stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats, stats and some more STATS!!

BASKETBALL IS NOT BASEBALL!!

The best players are not necessarily the ones with the best stats. You know this. You just choose to ignore it when talking about Wilt.

We all know Wilt was a box score stuffer (especially in the regular season) and a great all round player. But, we question his intangibles. We question his leadership. We question his clutchness. We question his drive to win. The sum of all these things are undeniably more important than stats.

Take off your rose tinted spectacles jlauber...

Ok, give me an example of these "intangibles" that you are questioning. How about Wilt immediately taking a LAST PLACE roster to a 49-26 record in his very first year...which was a team record at the time.

How about Chamberlain taking the bulk of that same roster, but now older and even worse, to a 48-32 record in his 61-62 season...all while scoring 50 ppg. Not only that, he single-handedly mowed down the Nationals in the first round, including a 56-35 clinching game five. Then, he somehow dragged that crappy group to a game seven, two point loss, against the 60-20 Celtics, and their SEVEN HOFers. Oh, and BTW, his teammates collectively shot .354 in that post-season. Explain to me how that was possible. In fact, in Wilt's first SIX post-seasons, his teammates collectively shot .383, .380, .354, .352, .352, and .332...and yet, he took them to FOUR Conference Finals, including a Finals. All, and with practically no help.

Or Wilt playing his heart out in the 62-63 season, on arguably the worst roster ever assembled. He could have folded his tent and gave up, but instead, he played 47.6 mpg, scored 44.8 ppg, grabbed 24.3 rpg, and shot a then-record .528 from the floor. In fact, he led the NBA in 15 of their 22 statistical categories.

And how about Chamberlain then taking that nearly identical pathetic cast of clowns to a 48-32 record the very next season, and a trip to the Finals.

Or Wilt being traded at mid-season, to a team that had gone 34-46 the year before...and leading them to a 3-1 romp over Oscar's loaded 48-32 Royals team. THEN, taking that 40-40 team, to a game seven, one point loss against the 62-18 Celtics, at the height of their Dynasty.

Or the fact that Wilt led the Sixers to the best record in the league three straight seasons, including their STILL best ever record of 68-13 mark in '67, and taking them to a dominating world title.

Or Wilt being "traded" from the Sixers, and immediately leading the Lakers to a then, best-ever record in Los Angeles. And a few years later leading them to a 69-13 record, which is STILL the best ever record by a Laker team. Or that Chamberlain led the Lakers to FOUR Finals in his five seasons there.

Or that all of his former teams immediately became worse, and then would get drop considerably after that. Including his Lakers, which plummetted after he retired, and did not come close to what he had accomplished until Magic arrived seven years later.

Leadership? Here again, give me the examples of where his "leadership" hurt his team's. Granted, he probably listened too much to the several incompetent coach's he was shackled with. But, had he argued with them, he would have been labeled a "sulker."

CLUTCHNESS? Wilt averaged 24.4 ppg, 26.3 rpg, and shot .626 from the field in his nine game seven's. And that does not include that 56-35 game five, in a best-of-series.

And, one more time...

1960 Game 3 vs. Nationals (best of 3 series at the time): 53 points in a 20 point win.

1962 Game 5 vs. Nationals: 56 points, 35 rebounds in a 17 point win.

1962 Game 6 vs Celtics: 32 points in a 10 point win

1962 Game 7 vs Celtics: 22 points, 21 rebounds in a 2 point loss

1964 Game 5 vs. Hawks: 50 points in a 24 point win.

1964 Game 7 vs. Hawks: 39 points, 26 rebounds, 12 blocks in a 10 point win.

1965 Game 6 vs. Celtics: 30 points, 26 rebounds in a 6 point win

1965 Game 7 vs. Celtics: 30 points, 32 rebounds in a 1 point loss

1966 Game 5 vs. Celtics: 46 points, 34 rebounds in an 8 point loss

1967 Game 2 vs. Royals: 37 points, 27 rebounds, 11 assists in a 21 point win.

1967 Game 3 vs. Royals: 16 points, 30 rebounds, 19 assists in a 15 point win.

1967 Game 1 vs. Celtics: 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists, 12 blocks in a 15 point win.

1967 Game 3 vs. Celtics: 20 points, 41 rebounds, 9 assists in an 11 point win.

1967 Game 5 vs. Celtics: 29 points, 36 rebounds, 13 assists in a 24 point win.

1968 Game 6 vs. Knicks: 25 points, 27 rebounds in an 18 point win. Little known fact is that Chamberlain led BOTH TEAMS in points, rebounds, and assists for the entire series, whilst nursing an assortment of injuries, including his annual shin splints. This against two Hall Of Fame centers Walt Bellamy & Willis Reed. Apparently Willis used to tremble at the mere sight of Luke Jackson in the MSG tunnel pre-game.

1968 Game 7 vs Celtics: 14 points, 34 rebounds in a 4 point loss (This despite two touches in the entire 4th quarter, the smartest move Russell has ever made in his career switching himself over to guard Chet).

1969 Game 7 vs. Celtics: 18 points, 27 rebounds in a 2 point loss (Head coach leaves him on the bench due to a personal grudge.)

1970 Game 5 vs. Suns: 36 points, 14 rebounds in a 17 point win

1970 Game 7 vs. Suns: 30 points, 27 rebounds, 11 blocks in a 35 point win (helped lead Lakers back from 1-3 deficit)

1970 Game 6 vs. Knicks: 45 points, 27 rebounds in a 22 point win

1970 Game 7 vs. Knicks: 21 points, 24 rebounds in a 14 point loss

(Understand that he should have not even been playing in the 1969-70 season after his injury, but was able to rehab his knee in time with his workouts in volleyball, a sport he would later become a Hall Of Famer in as well.)

1971 Game 7 vs. Bulls: 25 points, 18 rebounds in an 11 point win

1971 Game 5 vs. Bucks: 23 points, 12 rebounds, 6 blocks in an 18 point loss without Elgin Baylor or Jerry West. (Alcindor in this game had 20 points, 15 rebounds, and 3 blocks).

1973 Game 7 vs. Bulls: 21 points, 28 rebounds in a 3 point win (Bulls had the ball and a one point lead with 30 or so seconds left in the 4th. Norm Van Lier goes up for the shot only to have it rejected by the "big choker" Wilt Chamberlain. Chamberlain blocked Van Lier's shot right to Gail Goodrich down court for the go ahead basket. Is there any mention of this clutch defensive play from Chamberlain in Bill Simmons "Book Of Basketball"?

1973 Game 5 vs. Knicks: 23 points, 21 rebounds in a 9 point loss (a hobbled Jerry West finished with 12 points)


Yep...Wilt was a "choker" and a "failure."

Incidently, you can add game five of the '60 ECF's (Philadelphia was down 3-1, so it was a must-win game), and he responded with a 50-35 game against Russell in a 128-107 win. Keep in mind that game was in his rookie season, and he faced a Celtic team with SEVEN HOFers.

And, IMHO, his greatest effort came against Kareem in game six of the WCF's. He held Kareem to 16-37 shooting, while going 8-12 himself, and scoring 22 points with 24 rebounds. And, he absolutely took over the game in the 4th quarter, and led LA back from a 10 point deficit to a clinching four point win. He also blocked 11 shots in that game, and five of them were Kareem's sky-hooks.

Or Wilt, with two badly injured wrists dominating the clinching game five win the Finals, with a 24 point, 10-14 shooting, 29 rebound (the ENTIRE Knick team had 39 BTW), and 9 block game.

THAT was Wilt "the choker."


His drive to win? The man played on 12 winning teams in his 14 seasons, and in the two that he did not, he had that monumental season in 62-63, and that 64-65 playoff run where he carried a 40-40 team to within ONE point, in a game seven, of beating the 62-18 Celtics.

He went to 12 Conference Finals (by contrast, Bird went to eight.) He played on SIX teams that went to the Finals. He played on SIX teams that were Conference champions. He played on FOUR teams that had the best record in the league. He played on FOUR teams that won 60+ games, including two that went 68-13 and 69-13 (and won 33 straight games.) And he anchored TWO title teams. Not only that, but as I mentioned earlier, he single-handedly carried inept rosters to within an eyelash of beating Russell's "dynasty", and in fact, he DID beat that Dynasty (with a 4-1 blowout rout too.)

For someone who was considered a "loser", he was pretty bad at it. He gets ripped, but meanwhile Kareem played an entire decade with underachieving teams. And he had numerous playoff flops jobs. Bird lost with HCA in six post-seasons, and he had some downright AWFUL post-season series along the way. Hakeem never played on a 60 win team, and was blown out EIGHT times in the first round. And Shaq was part of SIX sweeping losses in the playoffs. MJ played on FIVE losing teams, and was 1-9 in his first ten playoff games. He didn't even get to the Finals until his seventh season. Yet, all we read about is how big a "loser" Chamberlain was.

Yep...that was Wilt. He was a "selfish", "stats-padding" "loser" who "choked" in his post-seasons, and was a miserable "failure" over the course of his entire career.

[jongib369]

25 years after 1962 would be 1987.
* The league was writhing in cocaine problems.
* MJ was in his physical prime, with his greatest year, 37 ppg - the first since Chamberlain to score more than 3000 points in a season - & his first time getting past the first playoff round.
* Barkley was storming the league
* Celtics & Lakers were still ruling the Finals, just as they did in the 60s.
* Future Hall of Famers...........
Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, James Worthy, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Moses Malone, Julius Erving, Isiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins, Charles Barkley, Akeem Olajuwon, Clyde Drexler, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Alex English, Patrick Ewing, Adrian Dantley, Joe Dumars, and Dennis Rodman.

Kareem, Parish, Moses, Olajuwon, Ewing. I notice that list (from Wikipedia) is missing A Train.

3 point line has permanently stretched the court, leaving the middle open for even an aged center like Kareem to dominate


What time is Chamberlain on? The Warriors? That was a team all right...... 21-61, Sleepy Floyd, Chris Mullin.... Chamberlain would put up lots of numbers with that team.

The Sixers? Dr. J's last year, Barkley & Cheeks.... World B. Free ......

The Lakers? A 1962 Wilt would definitely and permanently bench 87 Jabbar and their fast break would be unbelievable


Great matchups no question.