ISH's #7 Player of Alltime

[Deuce Bigalow]

edit: nevermind

[RobertdeMeijer]

I can live with Wilt beating Bird. I don't agree, but hey... it's understandable.

As for #7?
Tim Duncan

[Odinn]

Does anyone want a re-vote on #5 since it was so close?

#5 voting
17/44 votes - Wilt
16/44 votes - Bird

I've already voted for Bird. But I think he sould be over Wilt, absouletly. He was much better playoff-performer.

[ShaqAttack3234]

One thing that usually goes unnoticed is the length of one's prime. Hakeem's prime was clearly the shortest of the three and the argument is now simply between Duncan and Shaq.

I guess that depends on your definition of a player's prime.

Shaq's true prime may have been '98-'02, or you could extend it from '95-'03.

Hakeem's true prime may have been '93-'95, but you could extend it earlier, he was a top 5 player by his second season when he led Houston to the finals.

Duncan also had a couple of seasons that stand out from the rest of his career('02 and '03), but his level of play in general wasn't that different from '99-'07. Though Duncan started having more nagging injuries post-'03-'04 that prevented him from playing the same amount of minutes.

But Duncan certainly wasn't elite any longer than Hakeem or Shaq.

Anyway, my top 3-5 is pretty interchangeable between Hakeem, Shaq and Bird. But lately, I lean towards Hakeem.

So my vote goes to Hakeem Olajuwon.

[millwad]

I've already voted for Bird. But I think he sould be over Wilt, absouletly. He was much better playoff-performer.

Not only that, OP should should put time limits for every voting. Bird and Wilt was too close to be shut down like that.

[Deuce Bigalow]

edit: nevermind

[Inception28]

I guess that depends on your definition of a player's prime.

Shaq's true prime may have been '98-'02, or you could extend it from '95-'03.

Hakeem's true prime may have been '93-'95, but you could extend it earlier, he was a top 5 player by his second season when he led Houston to the finals.

Duncan also had a couple of seasons that stand out from the rest of his career('02 and '03), but his level of play in general wasn't that different from '99-'07. Though Duncan started having more nagging injuries post-'03-'04 that prevented him from playing the same amount of minutes.

But Duncan certainly wasn't elite any longer than Hakeem or Shaq.

Anyway, my top 3-5 is pretty interchangeable between Hakeem, Shaq and Bird. But lately, I lean towards Hakeem.

So my vote goes to Hakeem Olajuwon.

-To me, what you are referring to is peak. In my definition of prime, a prime can last up to 5-10 seasons to me. This is when a player performed at or close to their best. While a peak can last up to 3 seasons at their very best. It is probably strange although I do see a few people follow my criteria.

For example, I believe Kobe's prime lasted from 02-09. His peak on the other hand was probably from 06-08.

Like you just listed, Duncan's prime probably lasted from 99-07 but his one of his peak or best seasons was 02-03.

Hakeem doesn't have the accolades or accomplishments to be in this debate if you ask me. He should be 9th or 10th with Kobe while Wilt gets that 8th spot.

6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. Wilt
9. Hakeem/Kobe
10. Kobe/Hakeem

[NugzHeat3]

I guess that depends on your definition of a player's prime.

Shaq's true prime may have been '98-'02, or you could extend it from '95-'03.

Hakeem's true prime may have been '93-'95, but you could extend it earlier, he was a top 5 player by his second season when he led Houston to the finals.

Duncan also had a couple of seasons that stand out from the rest of his career('02 and '03), but his level of play in general wasn't that different from '99-'07. Though Duncan started having more nagging injuries post-'03-'04 that prevented him from playing the same amount of minutes.

But Duncan certainly wasn't elite any longer than Hakeem or Shaq.

Anyway, my top 3-5 is pretty interchangeable between Hakeem, Shaq and Bird. But lately, I lean towards Hakeem.

So my vote goes to Hakeem Olajuwon.

Duncan may be the most complete player to ever come out of college.

He was doing the same numbers in his rookie year that he was in his prime after they made him the focal point of the offense and David took a backseat post All-Star break. They realized that was the way to go since that was a better and more natural fit for either. Duncan was already taking control and leading the team.

The only thing I can say got better is his passing out of double teams which naturally improves with experience as one gets used to reading NBA defenses.

25.2 ppg
12.4 rpg
3.0 apg
2.7 bpg
54.0 FG%

[Harison]

Hakeem

[Inception28]

Here is what we have so far, OP.

Duncan - 4
Shaq - 5
Hakeem - 3
Oscar - 1

[ShaqAttack3234]

-To me, what you are referring to is peak. In my definition of prime, a prime can last up to 5-10 seasons to me. This is when a player performed at or close to their best. While a peak can last up to 3 seasons at their very best. It is probably strange although I do see a few people follow my criteria.

For example, I believe Kobe's prime lasted from 02-09. His peak on the other hand was probably from 06-08.

Like you just listed, Duncan's prime probably lasted from 99-07 but his one of his peak or best seasons was 02-03.

Hakeem doesn't have the accolades or accomplishments to be in this debate if you ask me. He should be 9th or 10th with Kobe while Wilt gets that 8th spot.

6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. Wilt
9. Hakeem/Kobe
10. Kobe/Hakeem

I consider a player's peak to be their best single season.

I think that accolades and "accomplishments" depend heavily on circumstances and I think he was less fortunate than Shaq or Duncan as far as the situation he was in. Though that's just my personal opinion.

Kobe's prime was from '01-'10, imo. Though you could argue that it was a bit shorter from '03-'09 for example.

Duncan may be the most complete player to ever come out of college.

He was doing the same numbers in his rookie year that he was in his prime after they made him the focal point of the offense and David took a backseat post All-Star break. They realized that was the way to go since that was a better and more natural fit for either. Duncan was already taking control and leading the team.

The only thing I can say got better is his passing out of double teams which naturally improves with experience as one gets used to reading NBA defenses.

25.2 ppg
12.4 rpg
3.0 apg
2.7 bpg
54.0 FG%

I agree, Duncan pretty much entered the league as a finished product, or close to it. I do think that he became more dominant defensively and improved in little areas, but you could even argue that his prime started in his rookie season.

[millwad]

-To me, what you are referring to is peak. In my definition of prime, a prime can last up to 5-10 seasons to me. This is when a player performed at or close to their best. While a peak can last up to 3 seasons at their very best. It is probably strange although I do see a few people follow my criteria.

For example, I believe Kobe's prime lasted from 02-09. His peak on the other hand was probably from 06-08.

Like you just listed, Duncan's prime probably lasted from 99-07 but his one of his peak or best seasons was 02-03.

Hakeem doesn't have the accolades or accomplishments to be in this debate if you ask me. He should be 9th or 10th with Kobe while Wilt gets that 8th spot.

6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. Wilt
9. Hakeem/Kobe
10. Kobe/Hakeem

That is nonsense.

Hakeem and accomplishments? The guy is 1 in blocks, 8 in steals, 11 in rebounds, 9th in scoring. Accomplishments? Easily. And on top of that he was DPOY twice, finals MVP 2 times, NBA MVP once, led the league in rebounding twice and he got the highest scoring average for any center in the playoffs of all-time and on the way to his titles he beat 3 top 10 centers. And in his 2nd season he outplayed the showtime Lakers in the playoffs, a team with Kareem on it and he also outplayed Parish in the finals of the '86 season.

And peak-wise he had one of the best peaks of all-time.

[KGMN]

Hakeem Olajuwon

[NugzHeat3]

I consider a player's peak to be their best single season.

I think that accolades and "accomplishments" depend heavily on circumstances and I think he was less fortunate than Shaq or Duncan as far as the situation he was in. Though that's just my personal opinion.

Kobe's prime was from '01-'10, imo. Though you could argue that it was a bit shorter from '03-'09 for example.



I agree, Duncan pretty much entered the league as a finished product, or close to it. I do think that he became more dominant defensively and improved in little areas, but you could even argue that his prime started in his rookie season.

I agree with you about Hakeem's accolades. I think he should've won 1 more MVP (1993) and 2-3 more DPoYs.

I've been critical of his 1987-1992 stretch but I think he was underrated back then because big men defense wasn't seen the same way as it is now or more so, the right way.

Man defense was considered just as important as well as how much exposure/coverage you got which is influenced by the market you play in. Guys like Rodman and Cooper were excellent man defenders but they aren't impacting the team defense as much as Hakeem. Lakers/Celtics rivarly is big plus Bird called Cooper his toughest match up so media gives him the award. Rodman, great man defender, best in the league but he has a great defensive system around him and the Rockets were still on their level defensively.

Eaton, Hakeem and Robinson definitely deserved more love than they got.

There is no really explanation for Cooper winning the DPoY over him in 1987 or Rodman winning in 1990. I'd have Eaton in the two years in between. Robinson in 1991 and 1996 to add to his 1992 award.

[Jan95]

Tim Duncan