Steve Francis vs Derrick Rose

[SCdac]

So you'd probably take Rose over peak Iverson too right?

*sigh* ... are you implying Francis is anything close to peak Iverson?

come on, you know what I'm saying man.

[Clippersfan86]

*sigh* ... are you implying Francis is anything close to peak Iverson?

come on, you know what I'm saying man.

Not at all. I'm saying Francis and Iverson bounced around the league because of supposed bad attitudes. Funny thing is you have players around the league that defended their actions and attitudes and could relate to it. I think they just had bad lucky with nagging injuries, being poorly managed etc.

It's sad how in sports landing in the wrong system or right system can make or break your career. Guys like T Mac and Vince Carter people think are completely done because of their attitude or lesser roles but if you put current Carter on a team like let's say the Bobcats... he could still be a 20, 5 and 5 player. Same with guys like Iverson who are supposedly done.

Point is I don't think you should be factoring attitude and rumors into who's the better player, unless you're answering my question on personal preference.

[SCdac]

Not at all. I'm saying Francis and Iverson bounced around the league because of supposed bad attitudes. Funny thing is you have players around the league that defended their actions and attitudes and could relate to it. I think they just had bad lucky with nagging injuries, being poorly managed etc.

It's sad how in sports landing in the wrong system or right system can make or break your career. Guys like T Mac and Vince Carter people think are completely done because of their attitude or lesser roles but if you put current Carter on a team like let's say the Bobcats... he could still be a 20, 5 and 5 player. Same with guys like Iverson who are supposedly done.

Point is I don't think you should be factoring attitude and rumors into who's the better player, unless you're answering my question on personal preference.

Dude, the NBA is not a video game. it's not a simulation. it's not fantasy basketball (in which numbers rule all).

Attitude, mentality, leadership, understanding... that stuff matters

spare me with this "the players are victims of a bad system" stuff.

[Clippersfan86]

Dude, the NBA is not a video game. it's not a simulation. it's not fantasy basketball (in which numbers rule all).

Attitude, mentality, leadership, understanding... that stuff matters

spare me with this "the players are victims of a bad system" stuff.

Trust me... I account for intangibles. I just think you using "bad attitude" on a player that was derailed by injuries and had a very short prime isn't fair. When Francis was on the Rockets he was an OUTSTANDING leader. The guy poured his heart and soul into the Rockets and their fans the way KG did with the Wolves. He deserves a lot more respect than you're giving him. Maybe in Orlando and on he started declining because of attitude and work ethic...

Thing is I'm not asking you to compare them over their career. The reason I specified peak vs current was because I knew people would lack objectivity on the matter rather than actually factoring in only the important things. I told you to pick who you personally like more as well so that's fine to say Rose... I just think you're straying from my main point of this thread. Let me clarify again.

01-02 Francis vs 10-11 Derrick Rose. Which player do you feel was better, who do you prefer? Stats, both metric and raw... show they are comparable and on the same level. Their games are extremely similar.

Possibly the 2 most athletic PG's in NBA history.

[SCdac]

Trust me... I account for intangibles. I just think you using "bad attitude" on a player that was derailed by injuries and had a very short prime isn't fair. When Francis was on the Rockets he was an OUTSTANDING leader. The guy poured his heart and soul into the Rockets and their fans the way KG did with the Wolves. He deserves a lot more respect than you're giving him. Maybe in Orlando and on he started declining because of attitude and work ethic...

Thing is I'm not asking you to compare them over their career. The reason I specified peak vs current was because I knew people would lack objectivity on the matter rather than actually factoring in only the important things. I told you to pick who you personally like more as well so that's fine to say Rose... I just think you're straying from my main point of this thread. Let me clarify again.

01-02 Francis vs 10-11 Derrick Rose. Which player do you feel was better, who do you prefer? Stats, both metric and raw... show they are comparable and on the same level. Their games are extremely similar.

Possibly the 2 most athletic PG's in NBA history.

Rose. Better, more efficient scorer. and a much better leader for a team that won much more than 28 games out of 82. I realize this is one season vs. one season, but knowing what I know about Steve Francis, I'd take Rose in a heartbeat. In the OP you didn't really mention anything about intangibles, so I figured you're not taking them into account. I definitely do. Francis was a whiner, even when he was with Houston.

[Bigsmoke]

lol Derrick Rose by far.

Derrick Rose vs Gary Payton or Chris Paul would be better comparisons

[nathanjizzle]

threads like this prove why derrick rose is still underrated.

[NuggetsFan]

Actually this was Stevie's 3rd season as well, not long before the injury monsters got to him. Steve Francis is a forgotten player who was incredibly underrated and people like me will always wonder what could have been.

People who didn't watch basketball for at least the last 10 years wouldn't know Francis but the reason I made this thread is because they have very similar games. Both incredible athletes, scoring PG's, have anklebreaking handles, deadly first step. List goes on.

People think Rose is some sort of new PG but that's because they didn't watch Francis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDLfvePfHtc

Your acting like the Franchise is a player from the 90's. Dude peaked in the mid 00's. He's not some undiscovered player, he was deff more flash than substance and it made him pretty popular. Didn't the dude try a self bounce Alley mid game?.

So my statement still stands correct. Derrick Rose in his 3rd year easily trumped anything Francis ever did. MVP, Eastern Conference Finals, 62 wins. Averaged better numbers overall on route to all those things as well.

Rose overall was the better scorer. Better "PG" in the sense that I don't think he's as selfish as Francis and more capable of running an offense. He's already found more success as a 3rd year player. Francis made the playoff once? I think anyways something like that.

Rose and Francis are both athletic points that are fun to watch. You throw peak Francis numbers out there so it doesn't like bad. Anybody who was looking to compete for an NBA championship is taking Rose IMO.

[rodman91]

Francis was good but Rose is more agressive,better slasher and better leader.

Stats don't tell real story.Rose's impact of the game is much higher than Francis had ever.

[B-Low]

Everyone that's seen me post in here knows Francis is my favorite player of all time, but even I gotta say Rose is better.

I do think Francis was more athletic, but as a player Rose has him beat. Francis lacked the mentality needed to be an MVP type player. He was all heart and no brain on the court. Loved his courage, loved his intensity, loved his desire to entertain, loved how much he cared about his teammates (hell the dude tried to fight AMARE because he disrespected Yao), but his head just never said "be the best" like Rose's seems to. His temper and heart got the better of him too often.

It's a shame too cuz I really think if that Rockets team from 02-03 had stayed together under Rudy T they coulda ended up as one of the better West teams. JVG killed Francis.

[NuggetsFan]

loved how much he cared about his teammates

He did love himself some Cuttino

[ukplayer4]

francis had other world physical talent but rose is already the better, smarter player. they had a very similar package tho thats for sure and coming into the nba i always felt rose and francis were so similar physically. francis tho, as scary as it is to admit had even greater physical gifts and was just a much greater highlight reel player, that isnt even a debate, franchise was cramming on EVERYONE. rose should be but he seems scared as hell of dunking, so many of the lanes he has to the basket off of his explosions by people are finished with weak hanging layups, francis just dunked everything and he also had much more flash and street to his handle. francis was snapping ankles all over the place and finishing with dunks for that reason i much prefer to watch francis. rose tho im convinced is the better player it just annoys me how hes just scared of dunking.

[NinjaSeal]

as much as i wanna say derrick rose i say steve francis... u guys must of forgot...
who is rose dunking on now?

francis was beasting on real centers

not a water downed league

people dont know basketball

[NinjaSeal]

and i know im rite , francis would dunk on al horford and tim duncan

i dont see rose dunking the way francis did!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY4k0QttPi8

[Burgz]

the majority of rose's misses are from jumpshots, while francis shot a low clip due to poor shot selection in general

rose's shot selection isnt necessarily bad, he is just young and needs to work on that part of his game. I see his FG% going way up as soon as he learns to draw fouls in the air, i dont know why he always tries to avoid contact