Top 10 players in NBA history as of 2011, Fox Sports

[donald_trump]

You're getting ethered...

lol at you thinking you're cool.

adding nothing to the conversation. do you know what longevity means? how about looking it up like you did ether?
that way you won't be so stupid and you could contribute to the conversation.

[millwad]

lol at you thinking you're cool.

adding nothing to the conversation. do you know what longevity means? how about looking it up like you did ether?
that way you won't be so stupid and you could contribute to the conversation.

Yeah, I'm so "cool".

You haven't added crap to this thread beside nonsense, and I knew what ether was, didn't get why it was used in that sentence though. And I just gav you my reasons why I prefer Olajuwon over Wilt but obviously you couldn't reply.

[donald_trump]

Yeah, I'm so "cool".

You haven't added crap to this thread beside nonsense, and I knew what ether was, didn't get why it was used in that sentence though. And I just gav you my reasons why I prefer Olajuwon over Wilt but obviously you couldn't reply.

see you're still not answering the question.

which bit of the longevity post didnt make sense? you seemed sure on calling me out about it. which bit doesnt make sense? stop avoiding the question.

[jlauber]

We don't have any stats on Wilt's blocks and steals, Hakeem is number one in blocks since they started to count them and he is number 8 all-time in steals. And then you gotta compare the players Hakeem blocked to the players Wilt blocked. He is the only center in the top 10 and the second best center is Drob when it comes to steals and he's around 40 on the all-time steal list.

Regarding the rebounds, first of all, Wilt played in an era where the teams averaged more possessions per game and they played the game at a much higher pace which led to more available rebounds. Not only that, the players of Wilt's era also shot with a much lower FG% which also led to more available rebounds. The centers of Wilt's era were obviously great rebounder but they didn't face much competition from the unathletic guards. Obviously Wilt was an amazing rebounder but people need to stop stare blind at his rebounding average, he played inthe same era where SF Elgin Baylor had a season where he almost averaged 20 rebounds per game over a season.

Regarding Wilt's scoring, Hakeem actually averaged both more points per game in the playoffs and he also shot with a better FG% in the playoffs. And Wilt won when he averaged less shots so the Wilt who averaged 50 points per game was not a winner, Wilt averaging 24 points per game and Wilt averaging 14 points per game was a winner, so much for his scoring..

Regarding his MVP's, I'd like to see how many MVP's he'd get while playing in Hakeem's era.

Wilt got one more ALL-NBA first team nominations and it should be said that Hakeem had to deal with Kareem, Moses, Ewing, Robinson and Shaq over his career for the ALL-NBA nominations. That is 5 of the 10 best centers of all-time, Wilt only only had to beat out two, Russell and Kareem.

I'm glad you mentioned Wilt facing "better competition", you do realize that Wilt's first ring came when he firt had to face a 39-42 team, then a 60 win team in Celtics and finally in the finals he faced a team who won 44 games, haha. You do realize that two out of 3 of those teams wouldn't even make the playoffs in today's era?

The second run was in '72 where he and the Lakers first faced a Bullet team who won 38 games, then the Lakers beat the Bucks who had injury issues that season and Kareem outscored Wilt by 23 points a game in that series on better FG% and in the finals he played against a 48 win Knick team.

And lets not forget that Wilt played with much greater players during those 2 runs. In '67 he played with HOF Hal Greer who averaged 27 points per game in the playoffs that season and beside Greer he had 3 other guys who put up more than 15 points per game. Now compare that to Hakeem who won in '94 with Maxwell as his 2nd best scorer at 13.8 points on 37% shooting..

And don't even get me started about the '72 season, Wilt was the fourth option on offense and he had 3 guys (2 of the HOF:ers) who put up more than 19 points per game in the playoffs..

And it's funny you talk about competition, only in 1995 Hakeem beat as many 60+ win teams as Wilt did during both his runs so try again...

Hakeem's two titles are more dominant, easily..

We don't need the actual stats on Wilt's blocked shots. EVERYONE acknowledges that he was blocking between 7-10+ bpg per season in his CAREER. Only a complete moron would dispute that. Hell, how many games did Hakeem RECORD 23 blocks in as Wilt did in the '68-69 season?

Hakeem wasn't even the best shot-blocker of HIS era. The 7-4 cement statue, Mark Eaton was. And Wilt's WORST season would have easily eclipsed Eaton's NBA "record" season.

Rebounding? Here again, using even the most idiotic math, and Wilt BLOWS Hakeem away. Chamberlain was getting 27 rpg in the regular season, and as many as 30 in the post-season. Wilt was more than TWICE the rebounder that Hakeem was. Unless you can prove that Wilt's era was scoring, shooting, and rebounding at over TWICE what Hakeem's era was (which is a complete fallacy), Hakeem's rebounding PALES in comparison to Wilt's.

Of course, we don't need math to do know that Wilt won ELEVEN rebounding titles in his FOURTEEN seasons, and then ELEVATED his rebounding in the post-season. Meanwhile, Hakeem barely won TWO rebounding titles in his EIGHTEEN season career, and was LIGHT YEARS behind Wilt in the post-season. My god, when Hakeem was paired with Barkley, who was roughly the SAME age, Charles absolutely BURIED Hakeem...outrebounding Hakeem by FOUR per game. And Wilt not only was NEVER outrebounded in his 29 post-season series, he was just CRUSHING his peers, TWO-THIRDS of whom were HOFers. Hakeem was outrebounded by Shaq in two alone, and no one would ever claim that Shaq was a great rebounder.

Scoring? Hakeem NEVER won a scoring title. Why? Because he was INCAPABLE of it. He was not even a great shooter in his career. How many FG% titles did Hakeem win? ZERO. The man was simply a very good scorer. Meanwhile, not only did Wilt win SEVEN scoring titles, he did so by as many as 19 ppg. In fact, when he was in his "scoring seasons", (60-66) all Wilt did was average 40 ppg.

How about this fact. Career 50+ point games. Hakeem with ONE, Chamberlain...118. 60+ point games? Well, goodbye Hakeem, who is not in the discussion. Wilt? 32 of the entire 62 recorded 60+ point games in NBA history. BTW, Wilt also had FOUR of the top-6 in terms of EFFICIENT 60+ point games, including THE highest game (.829 shooting...on 29-35 shooting.) Of course, when speaking of EFFICIENCY...well Hakeem was never known for that.

And... at Wilt not being a "winner" when he averaged 50 ppg in '62. His TEAM went 49-31, and they lost a game seven in the ECF's to Boston's 60-20 Celtics, and their SEVEN HOFers, by two points...in a post-season in which Wilt's teammates contributed NOTHING (they collectively shot .354.)

BTW, how many times did Hakeem LEAD the NBA in scoring, while taking his team to the BEST RECORD in the league, as Wilt did in the 65-66 season? Oh wait...Hakeem NEVER even led any of his 18 teams to the best record in a league, much less leading the league in scoring. Wilt played on two teams that did not have a winning record. He also played on FIVE that had WINNING records, while LEADING the NBA in scoring. Oh and BTW, the year that Wilt LED the NBA in scoring, and carried his TEAM to the BEST RECORD... he also LED the NBA in rebounding, averaged 5.2 apg, AND set a FG% record (that HE would shatter two more times.)

As for the post-season scoring. Of course Hakeem had a higher average. Wilt dramatically cut back his shooting in the last HALF of his career. Of cours, in his "scoring seasons", Wilt was MILES ahead of Hakeem in post-season scoring. In his first SIX post-seasons (and his TEAM was so bad that it did not make the playoffs in a year in which Wilt LED the NBA in scoring at 44.8 ppg and set a then-record FG% mark of .528)...all Wilt did was average 33 ppg and on .510 shooting, in league's that shot FAR worse than those that Hakeem played in. Oh, and BTW, Wilt also averaged 27 rpg in that six year span. So, here was a prime "scoring" Wilt AVERAGING 33 ppg and 27 rpg (on .510 shooting...in leagues that shot, on average, at about .430.)

In Wilt's first NINE seasons, covering EIGHT post-seasons, all Wilt did was average 29.3 ppg, 26.6 rpg, 4.8 apg (yes, 4.8 apg), and shot .518 from the floor (in league's that shot, on average, around .435.)

Wilt also had FOUR post-seasons in which he averaged 33.2 ppg, 34.7 ppg, 35.0 ppg, and 37.0 ppg. He also had SEVERAL post-season series in which he averaged 30+ ppg, including three of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, and 39 ppg. In fact, he had FOUR post-season series against RUSSELL in which he averaged 30+ ppg, including one in which he averaged 30 ppg AND 31 rpg (in a SEVEN game series.)

BTW, Hakeem's high post-season series average was 37.5, in a FOUR game series, in which his team was eliminated in the FIRST ROUND. Of course, that was the NORM in Hakeem's post-season career. FIRST ROUND exits. No other all-time "great" came close to being knocked out EIGHT times in the first round...and in over HALF of his post-season career. Oh, and BTW, Hakeem's post-seaosn rebounding series high was 16.8...also achieved in a four game first round series, and in which his team was knocked out.

How about 50+ point games in the post-season? Hakeem with...ZERO. And Wilt with FOUR, including one against RUSSELL (and in that game, Wilt also snagged 35 rebounds.) How about the Finals? Did Hakeem ever have a 40+ point game in the Finals? Hell no. How about Wilt. Yep...a 45 point game, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds, AND, on ONE leg. Oh, and it was in a "must win" elimination game, too. Oh, so was that 50-35 game against Russell. Oh, and so was Wilt's 56-35 game against Syracuse in the '62 playoffs. As was Wilt's 46-34 game against RUSSELL in the '66 ECF's.

So, NO, Hakeem was NOT a better post-season scorer than Wilt. Wilt COULD have easily scored FAR more. That he didn't was by design.

And I get a kick out of Dickwad constantly harping on Wilt not leading his team in scoring in his two title runs. So what? Hakeem led his team in scoring in nearly every one of his post-seasons, and the result was usually a quick first-round exit. BTW, in Wilt's '67 title run, he had the HIGH game by a Philly player, and was, BY FAR, their most EFFICIENT scorer.

To be continued...

[jlauber]

Continuing...

And speaking of "EFFICIENCY"...how about Hakeem in his three Finals? He collectively shot .488. How about Chamberlain in his SIX? .560! In fact, Wilt had one Final series of 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and a staggering .625 from the field. Hakeem had ONE Finals, in his THREE, in which he shot 50%...and it was an even 50%.

And I also get a kick out Dickwad's ridiculous comment about Hakeem's second best scorer in the '94 playoffs averaging 13.8 ppg on 37% shooting. He also had THREE OTHER teammates that averaged 10+, including Otis Thorpe who not only averaged 11.3 ppg (and 9.9 rpg), but shot a sizzling .589 from the field. Wilt NEVER had a teammate shoot .589 in his post-season career. Oh, and give me a season in which Hakeem's teammates shot as low as .382 in the playoffs. And then see of you can find any as low as .354. Or as low as .352 (twice.) Or how about this one... as low as .332. Yep...THAT is what Chamberlain had to overcome in FIVE of his post-seasons.

Kareem outscoring Wilt in the '72 WCF's. Sure he did...but on a HORRIBLE .457 FG%...including an AWFUL .414 over the course of his last FOUR games of that series. In fact, a PRIME Kareem shot .464 against an OLD Wilt, in their 28 H2H games. And yet, Kareem, from ages 38 thru 41 shot .599 against Hakeem-led teams. In one season, that 38 year old Kareem averaged 33 ppg on, get this... .634 shooting against Hakeem.

Of course, Dickwad NEVER mentions that Wilt was 35 years old in the '72 WCF's. NOR that virtually EVERYONE who WATCHED that seriescame away claiming that Wilt outplayed Kareem in that series (including Time Magazine, which proclaimed that Wilt DECISIVELY outplayed Kareem.)

Furthemore, Dickwad IGNORES the FACT that a PRIME Wilt just obliterated many of the SAME centers that Kareem would face a few years later...and to a FAR greater extent. Chamberlain was routinely hanging 30+ games on Thurmond in Wilt's "scoring seasons", including one game in which he battered Nate by a mind-boggling 45-13 margin. Kareem faced Nate in over 50 H2H games...and his HIGH game was only 34 points.

And then how about a PRIME Wilt against HOFers Reed and Bellamy...both of whom Kareem faced many times (and both of whom were past their primes when he did so)? Wilt had THREE games of 50+ on Reed, including a HIGH game of 58. And Chamberlain had THREE games of 60+ against Bellamy...including a HIGH game of 73 points! Where are those games by Kareem against those two? Don't bother looking...you won't find ANY.

And let's end this nonsense that Hakeem faced tougher competition in the playoffs. Here were Hakeem's opposing HOF centers in his FIFTEEN season post-season career.

Shaq... 8 games
Ewing.... 7 games.
Robinson... 6 games.
Parish... 6 games.
Kareem (and at age 38)... 5 games.

How about Wilt in his 13 season post-season career?

Lucas (as a starting center)... 5 games.
Bellamy... 6 games.
Reed (as a starting center)...11 games.
Kareem (and in his PRIME)... 11 games.
Thurmond... 17 games.
Russell... 49 games (yes, 49 games.)

Let's add those up, shall we? Hakeem faced a HOF center (and Kareem was WAY past his prime)...in 32 games. Wilt? 99 games. Hmmm... 99-32.

Of course, while Wilt and Hakeem each won two rings...Chamberlain came within an eyelash of winning FIVE more. AND, Hakeem won one of his rings in a season in which the acknowledge best player in the league took the year off (and that Chicago team still went 55-27 without him, and bearly beat a BY team that lost a close seven game series against Hakeem's Rockets in the Finals.)

Oh, and Hakeem facing tougher competition in his regular season career? First of all, Hakeem faced a WAY past his prime Kareem, and a fading Moses. So, in reality, his only real competition was Shaq (who was easily more dominant), Robison (who was basically Hakeem's equal), and Ewing, who was a notch below all of the above.

Wilt? Let's see...

How about Bellamy, Lucas, Reed, Cowens, Hayes, McAdoo, Unseld, Thurmond, Lanier, Russell, and Kareem.

BTW, Wilt finished 3rd and 4th in the MVP balloting in '72 and '73 (and had the playoff counted, he would very likely have been FIRST in BOTH years)...and at ages 35 and 36...and in leagues that had Thurmond, Reed, Bellamy, Unseld, Hayes, Lanier, Cowens, and Kareem.

How was Hakeem doing at ages 35 and 36? No where to be found...except that he was horribly outplayed in the post-season, and as USUAL, was taking his team's down in flames in the FIRST ROUND of the playoffs.

Hakeem greater than Wilt?

[DaPerceive]

Hakeem greater than Wilt?

I don't think Hakeem is greater or better than Wilt but I would rather have and build my team around Hakeem than Wilt. But still I think Wilt was greater and the better player of the two. I would also take Shaq and Duncan over Wilt as well, but I don't think any of the guys I listed were actually better or greater than him though. Shaq has the best argument of the three though.

[jlauber]

I don't think Hakeem is greater or better than Wilt but I would rather have and build my team around Hakeem than Wilt. But still I think Wilt was greater and the better player of the two. I would also take Shaq and Duncan over Wilt as well, but I don't think any of the guys I listed were actually better or greater than him though. Shaq has the best argument of the three though.

Hmmm...Hakeem NEVER played on a team that won 60+ games. In fact his HIGH season was 58. He also carried EIGHT of his teams down in flames in the FIRST ROUND of the playoffs. In FACT, Hakeem went out in the FIRST ROUND in over HALF of his post-season career.

Wilt? FOUR teams that won 60+ games...including TWO that went 68-13 and 69-13 (and won 33 straight games.) Wilt also took pathetic rosters to within an eyelash of beating the greatest dynasty in major professional sports history on TWO occasions. Hakeem? In one of his title runs, he had the great luck to not have to contend with MJ. As it was, MJ's Bulls went 55-27 withOUT him, and lost a close seven game series against the Knicks, who would lose a close seven game series against Hakeem's Rockets.

BTW, did Hakeem ever lead his team to the BEST record in the league? Hell no. How about Wilt? FOUR times, including one in which he LED the NBA in scoring (33.5 ppg), rebounding (24.6 rpg), and FG% (.540...in a league that shot .433)...as well as averaging 5.2 apg. BTW, EVERY one of those numbers were better than ANY of Hakeem' greatet single season numbers in those categories...and Wilt did it in the SAME season. Of course, Wilt easily exceeded all of them at some point in his career, as well.

Oh, and did Hakeem ever LEAD the league in assists? Did he ever finish THIRD in assists? Hmmm...well Wilt did (AND, in the process, Wilt LED those teams to the BEST RECORD in the league.)

Defense?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ws_season.html

Take Russell out of the equation...and, well you guessed it...Wilt had the greatest defensive seasons.

Of course, the bottom line....while Wilt was taking SIX of his teams, in his 13 post-seasons, to the Finals...Hakeem was taking EIGHT of his teams right out of the FIRST ROUND in his fifteen.

You can have Hakeem. I will take the FAR more successful Wilt.

[jlauber]

Dickwad
As usual you are full of crap, Wilt retired for a reason. His stats were all-time low and he had problems with injuries, it's just retarded to bring up the fact that Hakeem played 4 years more because Wilt retired for a reason, idiot.
Yes, Wilt two last seasons where when he played with HOF:ers and all-stars, what the hell do you expect?

Wilt NEVER "retired." He jumped to the ABA following his 72-73, and was expecting to be a PLAYER-coach. The Lakers sued, though, and prevented him from playing.

BTW, how long could Wilt have continued to DOMINATE?

Well, considering that he LED the NBA in rebounding in his LAST season, and then averaged 22.5 rpg in his 17 post-season games. And considering that he was voted first-team all defense in his LAST season...and over the likes of Cowens, Hayes, Lanier, Thurmond, and Kareem. And considering that he not only LED the NBA in FG%, at .727, but that is STILL the all-time RECORD (and probably will be into infinity.) And considering that in his very LAST game, all he did was score 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, and with 21 rebounds.

AND, considering this...

Of all his memories of Wilt Chamberlain, the one that stood out for Larry Brown happened long after Chamberlain's professional career had ended. On a summer day in the early 1980s, when Brown was coaching at UCLA, Chamberlain showed up at Pauley Pavilion to take part in one of the high-octane pickup games that the arena constantly attracted. "Magic Johnson used to run the games," Brown recalled Tuesday after hearing that Chamberlain, his friend, had died at 63, "and he called a couple of chintzy fouls and a goaltending on Wilt. "So Wilt said: 'There will be no more layups in this gym,' and he blocked every shot after that. That's the truth, I saw it. He didn't let one [of Johnson's] shots get to the rim."

Stewart, Larry (1999-10-13). "Giant Towered Over the Rest". The Los Angeles Times.

AND considering this...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...5131/index.htm

[QUOTE]Chamberlain was on holiday on the Adriatic in the summer of '74 when it occurred to him that he would finally hang it up. It wasn't anything dramatic that made him quit. Good Lord, he could sure still play. (Twelve years later, just this past April, the [B]New Jersey Nets reportedly offered him nearly half a million dollars to play out the last couple weeks of the NBA season

[millwad]

Hmmm...Hakeem NEVER played on a team that won 60+ games. In fact his HIGH season was 58. He also carried EIGHT of his teams down in flames in the FIRST ROUND of the playoffs. In FACT, Hakeem went out in the FIRST ROUND in over HALF of his post-season career.

Wilt? FOUR teams that won 60+ games...including TWO that went 68-13 and 69-13 (and won 33 straight games.) Wilt also took pathetic rosters to within an eyelash of beating the greatest dynasty in major professional sports history on TWO occasions. Hakeem? In one of his title runs, he had the great luck to not have to contend with MJ. As it was, MJ's Bulls went 55-27 withOUT him, and lost a close seven game series against the Knicks, who would lose a close seven game series against Hakeem's Rockets.

BTW, did Hakeem ever lead his team to the BEST record in the league? Hell no. How about Wilt? FOUR times, including one in which he LED the NBA in scoring (33.5 ppg), rebounding (24.6 rpg), and FG% (.540...in a league that shot .433)...as well as averaging 5.2 apg. BTW, EVERY one of those numbers were better than ANY of Hakeem' greatet single season numbers in those categories...and Wilt did it in the SAME season. Of course, Wilt easily exceeded all of them at some point in his career, as well.

Oh, and did Hakeem ever LEAD the league in assists? Did he ever finish THIRD in assists? Hmmm...well Wilt did (AND, in the process, Wilt LED those teams to the BEST RECORD in the league.)

Defense?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ws_season.html

Take Russell out of the equation...and, well you guessed it...Wilt had the greatest defensive seasons.

Of course, the bottom line....while Wilt was taking SIX of his teams, in his 13 post-seasons, to the Finals...Hakeem was taking EIGHT of his teams right out of the FIRST ROUND in his fifteen.

You can have Hakeem. I will take the FAR more successful Wilt.

Again pure nonsense about Wilt's stats, still Hakeem won just as many rings while being more dominant, you can't seriously even try to compare Wilt's '72 run to any run of Hakeem's.

Wilt and his later success was due playing with greater players than Hakeem, give Hakeem 3 guys who score more than 19 points per game in the playoffs (2 of them being HOF:ers) and you'd see how many titles he'd get.

Or give him 4 guys who score more than 15 points per game while 2 of them being HOF:ers and one of them being Hal Greer putting up 27 points per game during the whole playoffs.

And I know you like to spam about Wilt's "amazing games" you never even saw but when all of us watch Wilt play, his skills really doesn't translate in those stats, it doesn't. His post game was weak, his outside shot was weak and he was one of the worst FT-shooters of all-time.

Everytime I watch Wilt play I get amazed over how unskilled and awkward he looks in the post.

And Wilt leading the league in assists tells more about how weak the era was rather than what a great passer he was. As I told you before, based on PER 36 Hakeem had a higher assist average in the playoffs than Hakeem which just shatters your bs about Hakeem being this HUGE BLACK HOLE..

And regarding Hakeem not playing on any 60 win teams, which of his teams should have been 60 games or more according to you? Tell me now..

And Hakeem sure thing could beat 60+ win teams like he did twice in the playoffs of '95 when he and the Rockets faced the Jazz and the Spurs and like that wasn't enough, Phoenix Suns was also a team Rockets faced and they were a 59 win team..