Shaq breaks on all the other centers...

[Pointguard]

Hakeem vs Shaq in the post-season...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...stats_playoffs

Duncan vs Shaq in the post-season...

regular season...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=onealsh01

post-season...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=onealsh01

Now, take away Shaq vs Duncan in '08, when Shaq was obviously well past his prime, and Shaq holds a 14-11 record.



Sabonis vs Shaq in the regular season...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=onealsh01

and in the post-season...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...stats_playoffs


Wallace vs. Shaq in the regular season...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=onealsh01

Wallace vs Shaq in the post-season...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...stats_playoffs

And in the '04 Finals, Shaq averaged 26.6 ppg on .631 shooting.

Duncan is amazing. If he had Shaq's squads it wouldn't be close - careerwise or head to head.

[brantonli]

I don't recall Duncan ever "spanking" Shaq. In fact, when Duncan was guarded strictly by Shaq, which usually occurred in 4th quarters, he struggled to shoot 40% at those times (and it was probably closer to 33%.) A prime Sabonis would have no more success than a prime Ben Wallace (who couldn't "hold" Shaq down at all without help.)

And I really believe Shaq was being kind towards Hakeem, whom he outplayed over the course of their entire careers (in terms of both stats and wins.)


http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=onealsh01

Let's be honest here, somebody with the ego the size of Shaq's, isn't going to be 'kind' to just any random guy he's played against. The fact that Shaq didn't bother mentioning Duncan, Mutombo, or any other center he played with, is a mark of how much he respected Hakeem. jlauber, I respect your NBA knowledge and vociferous defence of old school players, but I would believe the guy who actually played in the NBA Finals against Hakeem, and got humbled so much he actually respects him, rather than the numbers.

This show is based out of Houston. You faced Hakeem in the finals early in your career. Who was your toughest matchup when you were in the game?

First, I want to thank people for going to all my 24 hour fitness' in Houston and in Pearland. I live in Pearland actually. Second of all, Hakeem was the only guy, only center I couldn't defeat. All the other ones I demolished and crushed and obliterated. Hakeem Olajuwon was the only one I couldnt.

What made him so tough?

He had all skills. I couldn't break him. A lot of guys I could break mentally first before the game even started.

Also, Shaq specifically said he couldn't 'defeat' Hakeem not because of any physical trait, like having a higher vertical or more strength or quicker, but mentality. And I seriously doubt that would change 'given a few more years'.

And I don't think it's 100% fair to use the Houston-Orlando series against Shaq, because he was most guarded by Charles Jones anyway, not Hakeem during that series.

[jlauber]

Let's be honest here, somebody with the ego the size of Shaq's, isn't going to be 'kind' to just any random guy he's played against. The fact that Shaq didn't bother mentioning Duncan, Mutombo, or any other center he played with, is a mark of how much he respected Hakeem. jlauber, I respect your NBA knowledge and vociferous defence of old school players, but I would believe the guy who actually played in the NBA Finals against Hakeem, and got humbled so much he actually respects him, rather than the numbers.



Also, Shaq specifically said he couldn't 'defeat' Hakeem not because of any physical trait, like having a higher vertical or more strength or quicker, but mentality. And I seriously doubt that would change 'given a few more years'.

And I don't think it's 100% fair to use the Houston-Orlando series against Shaq, because he was most guarded by Charles Jones anyway, not Hakeem during that series.

Hakeem was a Top-10 player all-time. But, for some reason, there is this perception that he outplayed Shaq. Even at Hakeem's peak, and with Shaq playing early in his career, the two battled to a statistical draw in the '95 Finals (Hakeem outscored Shaq, 32-28 ppg, while Shaq outrebounded Hakeem, 12.5 rpg to 11.2 rog, and Shaq outshot Hakeem, .595 to .483. And, yes, it was a Houston sweep, but two of the games were decided by a total of five points (and one in OT), and another one in the last couple of minutes.

The rest of their career, aside from those four games, decidedly belonged to Shaq (including the post-season.) And Shaq not only easily outscored, outrebounded, and outshot Hakeem in their other 24 H2H games, he also had a 17-7 record against him (including 3-1 in their other H2H playoff series.)

[RazorBaLade]

Hakeem was a Top-10 player all-time. But, for some reason, there is this perception that he outplayed Shaq. Even at Hakeem's peak, and with Shaq playing early in his career, the two battled to a statistical draw in the '95 Finals (Hakeem outscored Shaq, 32-28 ppg, while Shaq outrebounded Hakeem, 12.5 rpg to 11.2 rog, and Shaq outshot Hakeem, .595 to .483. And, yes, it was a Houston sweep, but two of the games were decided by a total of five points (and one in OT), and another one in the last couple of minutes.

The rest of their career, aside from those four games, decidedly belonged to Shaq (including the post-season.) And Shaq not only easily outscored, outrebounded, and outshot Hakeem in their other 24 H2H games, he also had a 17-7 record against him (including 3-1 in their other H2H playoff series.)

and that is why points > rebounds, fg and everything else

[brantonli]

I thought my point about the Houston-Orland Finals series was that, well, it's not really a fair comparison (for either Shaq or Hakeem) because neither guarded each other much (from what I recall from watching the 4 games). It's far more accurate to say 'Shaq shot .595 against the Houston team (Jones) to Hakeem shooting .483 against the Magic' than to imply that somehow they achieved these FG% whilst playing almost 1-on-1 against each other.

[millwad]

Guys, honestly, don't listen to the old fart Jlauber.

He can't even admit that Wilt got his ass kicked by Jabbar who averaged 40 points on 50% shooting on Wilt in the regular season of 72 (the same year Wilt got his 2nd ring) and the same year he got outscored with 23 points a game by Kareem in the playoffs while having even worse FG% than Kareem.

Shaq always gave Hakeem credit for playing him the toughest and playing him the best. And yes, Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the 1995 finals even though Shaq played a great series.

What's really funny is that Jlauber doesn't consider that Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the 1995 finals even though Shaq tells everyone that Hakeem did but he consider that Jabbar got schooled by Wilt when he outscored Wilt with 23 points per game in the playoffs, had more assists, shot with better FG% and twice as good FT%..

But he consider that Wilt Chamberlain "schooled" Kareem in the '72-season while being abused in the regular season by Kareem who trashed him with his 40 point average per game on 50% on Wilt. And then when the playoffs came around Wilt couldn't even hit any shots even though he only averaged 10.8 points per game compared to Jabbar's 34 points per game and still according to this old fart, Wilt schooled Kareem.. Haha.

"If I'm going to fight you, I'd rather just beat you," he said. "If I can't beat you, I'll be a man and say I can't beat you. I'm not going to [cry about it]. . . . I'm the first guy to say that somebody is better than me. I was the first guy to say Hakeem Olajuwon beat me in the [1995] NBA finals. He killed me. He dominated me. I didn't go, 'Oh, he's traveling. They had experience. Wah-wah-wah.' I'm a man. Hakeem Olajuwon dusted my butt. - Shaquille O'neal

[Odinn]

Now, take away Shaq vs Duncan in '08, when Shaq was obviously well past his prime, and Shaq holds a 14-11 record.

If we take away 08 series, combined 99-01-02-03-04 series;

Duncan; 25.8ppg/12.9rpg/4.1apg/2.4bpg/0.9spg/4.0tpg/0.483fg%/0.727ft%/29.4eff
Shaq; 23.9ppg/13.5rpg/2.5apg/2.8bpg/0.6spg/3.0tpg/0.536fg%/0.532ft%/27.5eff

[jlauber]

Guys, honestly, don't listen to the old fart Jlauber.

He can't even admit that Wilt got his ass kicked by Jabbar who averaged 40 points on 50% shooting on Wilt in the regular season of 72 (the same year Wilt got his 2nd ring) and the same year he got outscored with 23 points a game by Kareem in the playoffs while having even worse FG% than Kareem.

Shaq always gave Hakeem credit for playing him the toughest and playing him the best. And yes, Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the 1995 finals even though Shaq played a great series.

What's really funny is that Jlauber doesn't consider that Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the 1995 finals even though Shaq tells everyone that Hakeem did but he consider that Jabbar got schooled by Wilt when he outscored Wilt with 23 points per game in the playoffs, had more assists, shot with better FG% and twice as good FT%..

But he consider that Wilt Chamberlain "schooled" Kareem in the '72-season while being abused in the regular season by Kareem who trashed him with his 40 point average per game on 50% on Wilt. And then when the playoffs came around Wilt couldn't even hit any shots even though he only averaged 10.8 points per game compared to Jabbar's 34 points per game and still according to this old fart, Wilt schooled Kareem.. Haha.

"If I'm going to fight you, I'd rather just beat you," he said. "If I can't beat you, I'll be a man and say I can't beat you. I'm not going to [cry about it]. . . . I'm the first guy to say that somebody is better than me. I was the first guy to say Hakeem Olajuwon beat me in the [1995] NBA finals. He killed me. He dominated me. I didn't go, 'Oh, he's traveling. They had experience. Wah-wah-wah.' I'm a man. Hakeem Olajuwon dusted my butt. - Shaquille O'neal

Dickwad once again making a complete fool of himself. Chamberlain was 35 years old in '72, and playing on a surgically repaired knee..and battling a PRIME Kareem. Of course, Wilt's Lakers went 8-3 against Kareem's Bucks that season, and in the WCF's, Wilt held Kareem to .457 shooting, (Kareem had shot .574 against the league that season.) What's more was that Chamberlain pounded Kareem physically in the last four games of that six game series (three Laker wins), including holding Kareem to an AWFUL .414 shooting... AND blocking at LEAST 15 sky-hooks in that series (those are the KNOWN blocks, covering three games of that series.) And virtually EVERYONE clamed that Wilt outplayed Kareem in that series. Time Magazine hailed Wilt as having DECISIVELY outplayed Kareem in that series. Even the MILWAUKEE press proclaimed Wilt as outplaying Kareem.

Once again, that was an OLD Chamberlain, and against a PRIME Kareem (in perhaps his finest season.) BTW, Chamberlain shredded Kareem in their only H2H game before his knee injury.

Now, think about this... an OLD Kareem...38 years old and barely able to get six rebounds per game, and facing a 23 year old Hakeem (and keep in mind that a 23 year old Kareem led the NBA in scoring at 31.7 ppg on .577 shooting, with 16.0 rpg..en route to an MVP and a FMVP...and who a 34 year-old Chamberlain battled to a complete statistical draw in their 10 H2H games that season), just CRUSHED Hakeem in their five regular season games, averaging 33 ppg on...get this... .634 shooting (Kareem was a career .559 shooter BTW.) BTW, Kareem, at ages 37 and 38, hung THREE games of 40+ on Hakeem...including one of 46 points, on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes... AND, in which Hakeem's coach was criticized for having Hakeem TRY to guard Kareem the entire 37 minutes. Oh, and BTW, Kareem, in his known 18 fregular season H2H games against Hakeem, and from ages 38 thru 41, averaged 20.2 ppg on .599 shooting against Hakeem-led teams. And, that does not include the 84-85 season, in which Kareem pounded Hakeem with a 40 point game.

And how about this? A PRIME Shaq just BUSTED Hakeem apart in their '99 playoffs H2H, including a career high game against Hakeem of 37 points. Granted, Hakeem was past his prime, but why does a more PRIME Hakeem get some kind of credit for outplaying a YOUNG Shaq (and here again, "outplaying" him was questionable at best)...but virtually no one brings up their other 24 H2H games in which Shaq was CLEARLY a better player.

In any case, what is also interesting about Shaq's career H2H's against Hakeem, was that he only had four games of 30+ against Hakeem...and yet, a 38 year-old Kareem could POUR in THREE games of 40+ against a 23 year old Hakeem (at the same age as Kareem was just dominating the NBA...although he couldn't outplay a 34 year old Wilt, who was nowhere near his prime.) The fact was, an OLD Kareem scored at WILL against Hakeem.

What we don't have in these Hakeem-Kareem-Wilt discussions are these...a PRIME Kareem vs. a PRIME Hakeem, and a PRIME Chamberlain vs. a PRIME Kareem.

As for the Wilt vs. Kareem debates...

A PRIME Chamberlain absolutely obliterated many of the SAME centers that Kareem would face in his career, and to a FAR greater extent than Kareem EVER did. Chamberlain was averaging 40 ppg during an entire SEASON against HOFer Willis Reed, and over the course of his career against him, he had THREE games of 50+, including a high game of 58. Wilt also averaged 55 ppg against HOFer Walt Bellamy one entire SEASON, and over the course of their H2H career, Wilt had THREE games of 60+ against him, including a high game of 73! And a PRIME "scoring" Wilt only faced Thurmond in a handful of games, but he still found time to hang several 30+ games on him, including one game in which he outscored Thurmond, 45-13. And, how about this? In Wilt's 68-69 season, and in a year in which he only averaged 14 FGAs per game, he still found time to pour in TWO of his 32 60+ point games...against Dierking and Fox (and that one was on an incredible 29-35 shooting performance)...and yet, Kareem faced those two guys the very next season, and even after that...and NEVER had anything close to a 60 point game against them (Kareem's career high was 55 points...although he probably could have easily topped that in his 46 point game against Hakeem, when he only played 37 minutes.)

Kareem faced all of those guys, and never came close to the numbers that a PRIME Wilt hung on them. In fact, Kareem faced Thurmond in some 50+ H2H games, and his HIGH game was only 34 points.

So, what we are left pondering is just how much more dominant a PRIME Kareem would have been against Hakeem...and just how much more dominant a PRIME Wilt would have been against Kareem.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Duncan is amazing. If he had Shaq's squads it wouldn't be close - careerwise or head to head.

So many things wrong this statement.

[Fatal9]

And I really believe Shaq was being kind towards Hakeem, whom he outplayed over the course of their entire careers (in terms of both stats and wins.)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=onealsh01

Like usual, amazed by your inability to look at stats in context. Half the games are past Hakeem's prime, while all the games are when Shaq was young and either in his prime or close to it. Through '96 their numbers were 25/11/5/3.5 on 46% for Hakeem to 22/14/3/1.5 on 57% for Shaq.

And basketball, ESPECIALLY for centers is not a one on one game. While the regular season games I've seen Shaq/Hakeem guarded each other more than say D-Rob/Hakeem did, the 90s centers went a lot of games without guarding each other much in the first 2-3 quarters to avoid foul trouble. Also completely different help defenders, different teammates to create shots etc etc etc.

This isn't something Shaq has said one time to be nice (that Hakeem was his toughest challenge, or he couldn't outplay him etc etc), this is something he's said for basically his entire career, so I'm pretty sure he means/believes this.

[jlauber]

Like usual, amazed by your inability to look at stats in context. Half the games are past Hakeem's prime, while all the games are when Shaq was young and either in his prime or close to it. Through '96 their numbers were 25/11/5/3.5 on 46% for Hakeem to 22/14/3/1.5 on 57% for Shaq.

And basketball, ESPECIALLY for centers is not a one on one game. While the regular season games I've seen Shaq/Hakeem guarded each other more than say D-Rob/Hakeem did, the 90s centers went a lot of games without guarding each other much in the first 2-3 quarters to avoid foul trouble. Also completely different help defenders, different teammates to create shots etc etc etc.

This isn't something Shaq has said one time to be nice (that Hakeem was his toughest challenge, or he couldn't outplay him etc etc), this is something he's said for basically his entire career, so I'm pretty sure he means/believes this.

Even if I were to agree with your points here, (and they are valid), Shaq STILL pretty much outplayed Hakeem in those "prime Hakeem" years. AND, Shaq was nowhere near his peak in '95, either.

What amazes me, though, is that Hakeem is basically being credited with outplaying Shaq, for their CAREERS, by so many...for that '95 Final series (and in which Shaq had a case as being at least Hakeem's equal.) And once again, exclude that '95 series, and in the rest of their 24 H2H games Shaq was clearly the more dominant player.

Same with the Robinson-Hakeem battles. Hakeem easily outplayed Robinson in ONE playoff series, covering six games. BUT, how about their other 42 H2H games?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=olajuha01

Robinson matched Hakeem in virtually EVERY single category. In fact, it is almost a mirror image, except that Hakeem slightly outscored Robinson, 21.9 ppg to 19.6 ppg, while Robinson had a solid .488 to .441 edge in FG%. Oh, and BTW, Robinson's TEAMs went 30-12 against Hakeem's.

[Soothing Layup]

I love shaq

[juju151111]

Hakeem was a Top-10 player all-time. But, for some reason, there is this perception that he outplayed Shaq. Even at Hakeem's peak, and with Shaq playing early in his career, the two battled to a statistical draw in the '95 Finals (Hakeem outscored Shaq, 32-28 ppg, while Shaq outrebounded Hakeem, 12.5 rpg to 11.2 rog, and Shaq outshot Hakeem, .595 to .483. And, yes, it was a Houston sweep, but two of the games were decided by a total of five points (and one in OT), and another one in the last couple of minutes.

The rest of their career, aside from those four games, decidedly belonged to Shaq (including the post-season.) And Shaq not only easily outscored, outrebounded, and outshot Hakeem in their other 24 H2H games, he also had a 17-7 record against him (including 3-1 in their other H2H playoff series.)

The rest of his career Hakeem was injured and out of his prime. You also don't take intoaccount the clutch plays Hakeem made in those finals and Shaq TO.4 TO per gm isn't good. Shaq knows this. I wish Shaq would of came in the leagueat 88

[juju151111]

Like usual, amazed by your inability to look at stats in context. Half the games are past Hakeem's prime, while all the games are when Shaq was young and either in his prime or close to it. Through '96 their numbers were 25/11/5/3.5 on 46% for Hakeem to 22/14/3/1.5 on 57% for Shaq.

And basketball, ESPECIALLY for centers is not a one on one game. While the regular season games I've seen Shaq/Hake em guarded each other more than say D-Rob/Hakeem did, the 90s centers went a lot of games without guarding each other much in the first 2-3 quarters to avoid foul trouble. Also completely different help defenders, different teammates to create shots etc etc etc.

This isn't something Shaq has said one time to be nice (that Hakeem was his toughest challenge, or he couldn't outplay him etc etc), this is something he's said for basically his entire career, so I'm pretty sure he means/believes this.

We also know jaublar knows more then Shaq in this situation. Shaq has disrespected every great Center except Hakeem. His Ego wouldn't let him say these things.

[LBJDWADE63]

If we take away 08 series, combined 99-01-02-03-04 series;

Duncan; 25.8ppg/12.9rpg/4.1apg/2.4bpg/0.9spg/4.0tpg/0.483fg%/0.727ft%/29.4eff
Shaq; 23.9ppg/13.5rpg/2.5apg/2.8bpg/0.6spg/3.0tpg/0.536fg%/0.532ft%/27.5eff

Olum odinn resmen duncanla iligili yazarak sadece 700 mesaja ulasmissin seni tebrik ediyorum. Nasil bir duncan sevgisidir lan bu.