ISH All-time Top 25 Guards Project: #10 - John Stockton vs. Jason Kidd

[G.O.A.T]

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Make your arguments here for the next 48 hours on rather John Stockton or Jason Kidd should advance and continue to move higher on the list. Put the players name you are voting for in BOLD so I don't miss it when I tally. The loser of this poll will be ranked #11 in our project.

Only members listed on the project roster will have their votes counted. Anyone may add their opinion and or argument as long as it's constructive. If you'd like to join the roster please make a request to do so in the projects main thread linked here.

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19 seasons
11x all-NBA
11x all-star
1993 ASG MVP
5x all-defensive
9x Assists Leader
2x Steals Leader
1st All-time in Assists
1st All-time in Steals
Played 82 games in 16 of 18 possible seasons

Votes (13)
D.J.
ThaSwagg3r
magnax1
iamgine
Droid101
SteveNashMVPcro
Rose
Big 164
WillC
KGMN
SuperPippen
Gotterdammerung
G.O.A.T



17 seasons
6x all-NBA
10x all-star
9x all-defensive
5x Assists Leader
2nd all-time in Assists
3rd all-time in Steals
3rd all-time in 3-pt made
1995 Rookie of the Year
2011 NBA Champion

Votes (3)
Toizumi
Miller for 3
Boston C's

[kaiiu]

Stockton

[HylianNightmare]

going to edit this later

[D.J.]

Close, but I'm going with Stockton. Him and Kidd scored roughly the same amount of points, though Stockton was a much better shooter and far more efficient. Stockton was the smarter player of the two, though not as athletic. Defensively, they're pretty close though Stockton gambled a bit more(mainly because he was the smaller of the two).

Kidd was clearly better in the fast break, though Stockton was no slouch. Half court game clearly favors Stockton.

[Soothing Layup]

Stockton because his assist record will never be broken.

[Kblaze8855]

Gotta say Stockton. some might mention some of the big playoff games Kidd has had and say Stockton was never capable of such things but....I just dont buy it for the most part. He had a role to play and he played it. But he was a more than capable scorer. If you look into some of his exploits closing games in the playoffs its clear he put the team far ahead of his own scoring. He didnt care about anything but who won the game.

Hes had a few more off shooting games in the playoffs than I think people are aware of...but he was willing to put up shots if nobody had it going and the game was slipping away. I remember quite a few times the Jazz got knocked out and John was going harder than anyone down the stretch trying to fight it off.

He played hard every night for damn near 20 years. He took over late in finals games and never got love for it. He held a solid offense together for 15+ years and played defense on anyone you put in front of him. He was also a dick....who didnt care if you hated him if he got to win. He even set good screens and would go in with the bigmen and snatch a rebound if he had to though his numbers dont show it.

Nothing but respect for stockton. And the longevity lovers have to respect him. he was putting up like 13/11 when he was 38 and leading a 50+ win team.

A team the Mavs knocked out in the first round I believe but..still...

[ThaSwagg3r]

It is a travesty that Kidd was over Nash but Payton wasn't. The Kidd affinity is ridiculous but hopefully we can end it with this comparison.


My vote goes to John Stockton.


I'll post what I posted in the original top 25 guards of all-time thread.

Stockton over Kidd is an easy choice for me...

Stockton and Kidd were virtually the same player except Stockton shot and scored with much better efficiency while Kidd was a very inefficient shooter and scorer. Stockton also had a shooters presence, Kidd was pretty much sagged off all the time and the defense dared him to shoot the three. The defender on Kidd could have easily just doubled or trapped another player on his team because the defense wouldn't miss a beat. However, doing that against Stockton would just be plain stupid since Stockton would drain that shot since he was a 52% shooter and a near 40% shooter from downtown.

Not sure how much weight Kidd's championship ring in 2011 means in this situation because I also feel that Stockton could have won that ring if he was put in that situation. I understood your point about Payton not being able to perform well in the 2004 finals so there was no guarantee that Payton could replace Kidd on the Mavericks last season and they still win. Payton did not age as well as either Stockton or Kidd did, but I feel like his prime/peak was just better than both of them.

Still, Kidd was just a 7/6 role player for the Mavericks last season. That is not too difficult to replace.

There is almost nothing Kidd did better than Stockton in except rebounding. There actually isn't even much of a difference between Nash and Stockton offensively except for Stockton's lack of assertiveness. Stockton's defense is comparable with Kidd's.....as a matter of fact I would probably argue that Stockton's D was better. It is certainly no advantage for either player in this argument whether you believe Kidd or Stockton was the better defender. Their defenses were close and a hell lot closer than Kidd vs. Nash defensively.

[fos]

Stockton.

[Sampsonsimpson]

Stockton

[D.J.]

It is a travesty that Kidd was over Nash but Payton wasn't.

Truthfully, both should be over Nash.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Truthfully, both should be over Nash.

1. Nash
2. Payton
3. Kidd

That is how I would rank them.

As for Stockton vs. Kidd, I don't think either one of these guys could be win as the best player or the "batman" of the team. They would both would have been great second bananas if you really think about it (Stockton actually was one). Stockton was probably the dream 2nd banana actually.....it is too bad Malone wasn't a great 1st banana.

[G.O.A.T]

It is a travesty that Kidd was over Nash but Payton wasn't. The Kidd affinity is ridiculous but hopefully we can end it with this comparison.

Kidd above Payton is common, they are almost always close. Nash is below both as often as not. It's not as simple as the statistics, Kidd has as many all-NBA 1st teams as Nash and Payton combined, and all three played in largely the same era, only five years separates Payton the oldest from Nash the youngest. That alone is enough reason for Kidd to be above both. Kidd took his teams to more finals than those two combined as well. There are plenty of reasons to make the argument for Kidd, it really comes down to preference and perception.

[D.J.]

1. Nash
2. Payton
3. Kidd

That is how I would rank them.

Kidd and Payton are almost interchangable. Very close, though I give the slight edge to Payton. It's very close though.


Payton
Kidd




Nash

[G-train]

I'd recommend youtubing some late 80's early 90's Jazz when Malone ran the break really fast. Some of Stockton's passes you just would not see today from anyone.

[1987_Lakers]

For people who voted for Kidd in the last round & Stockton in this round can you tell me why? Nash if you look deeper was better than Stockton, Stockton has the longevity, but Nash was clearly the better player. I don't understand these inconsistencies. Just my opinion.