Most Balanced Player In NBA History?

[millwad]

I have covered this STUPID response MANY times. Chamberlain's TEAMs benefitted from Wilt's FT shooting. EVERYONE of his TEAMS were among the leaders in FTAs, year-after-year. His '67 Sixers were MILES ahead of the league. And how about this...his 68-69 Lakers LED the league in FTAs. However, he was injured in game nine of the 69-70 season, and missed nearly the entire season. The result? LA finished ELEVENTH out of 14 teams in FTAs. THEN, he came back in the post-season, and the result? In the Finals, the Lakers probably shot nearly TWICE as many FTs as did the Knicks.

Chamberlain (and Shaq) probably had, BY FAR, the most "and-one's" in NBA history. On top of that, they not only got opposing centers in foul trouble, but ENTIRE teams in foul trouble...which resulted in more "unguarded" baskets for teammates, because either opposing players were in foul trouble, or they had an inferior bench player guarding them. And, of course, he got his team's into the "bonus" situation sooner, which resulted in MORE FTAs.

Which still doesn't change the freaking fact that he was one of the worst FT-shooters of all-time. I'm not talking about anything but the fact that he was a terrible FT-shooter and saying "Oh, but he made a ton of FT's" doesn't mean crap when he missed the same amount of FT's.

That's like someone who takes alot of FGA attempts with crappy FG% and then someone excuses him by saying that he still made a lot of shots during his career.

Wilt to this date is one of the worst FT-shooters of ALL-TIME, PERIOD!

[jlauber]

Which still doesn't change the freaking fact that he was one of the worst FT-shooters of all-time. I'm not talking about anything but the fact that he was a terrible FT-shooter and saying "Oh, but he made a ton of FT's" doesn't mean crap when he missed the same amount of FT's.

That's like someone who takes alot of FGA attempts with crappy FG% and then someone excuses him by saying that he still made a lot of shots during his career.

Wilt to this date is one of the worst FT-shooters of ALL-TIME, PERIOD!

There is a HUGE difference in taking FGAs and FTAs. A FGA is a shot. A FTA is the RESULT of a PLAY. Chamberlain stuffing a shot while a defender was trying to deliberately foul him before that shot...is a BONUS. And getting team's in the PENALTY much earlier is a BENEFIT for the ENTIRE team...for a VARIETY of reasons.

BTW, Chamberlain holds the record for FTS MADE in a game (28, in a game in which he went 28-32), and his 835 MADE in his 61-62 season is the SECOND HIGHEST SEASON in NBA history (only Jerry West's 840 in '66 is ahead of him.) AND, once again, Chamberlain currently ranks 14th in NBA history, in FTs MADE. He MADE 600 more, in FOUR less seasons, than Hakeem. And, in roughly the same number of years, he MADE 2000 MORE than Bird did in his career.

[magnax1]

Duncan, Garnett, Hakeem and Robinson come to mind.

[millwad]

There is a HUGE difference in taking FGAs and FTAs. A FGA is a shot. A FTA is the RESULT of a PLAY. Chamberlain stuffing a shot while a defender was trying to deliberately foul him before that shot...is a BONUS. And getting team's in the PENALTY much earlier is a BENEFIT for the ENTIRE team...for a VARIETY of reasons.

Wow, good that you told me that, I didn't know that...

BTW, Chamberlain holds the record for FTS MADE in a game (28, in a game in which he went 28-32), and his 835 MADE in his 61-62 season is the SECOND HIGHEST SEASON in NBA history (only Jerry West's 840 in '66 is ahead of him.) AND, once again, Chamberlain currently ranks 14th in NBA history, in FTs MADE. He MADE 600 more, in FOUR less seasons, than Hakeem. And, in roughly the same number of years, he MADE 2000 MORE than Bird did in his career.

I don't give a crap about Wilt's record he achieved in one game, the man over his career was one of the worst FT-shooters of all-time, why the hell is that so hard to get? He was a horrible FT-shooter.

And why are you bringing up Hakeem? Are you 5 years old, seriously? "Oh, you diss my favourite player so I have to get you in some way".. Grow up, and btw, Hakeem was WAY BETTER than Wilt was from the line, not even close.

Yeah, he made more FT's than Hakeem and Bird but he shot way more FT's on MUCH LOWER FT% and he missed most FT's in league HISTORY..

Wilt from the FT-line is equal to crap.

[tpols]

So what you are saying is only big men can have an impact on defense?

No.

Only big men can have a defensive impact that can match their offense[given that they are superstars].

Big men advantages over swingmen:
-huge advantage in defensive impact

Swingmen advantages over big men:
-better in the clutch

One has a defensive advantage and the other an offensive.

[tpols]

Duncan, Garnett, Hakeem and Robinson come to mind.

Damn bro.. you stealin my list.

[jlauber]

I don't give a crap about Wilt's record he achieved in one game, the man over his career was one of the worst FT-shooters of all-time, why the hell is that so hard to get? He was a horrible FT-shooter.

And why are you bringing up Hakeem? Are you 5 years old, seriously? "Oh, you diss my favourite player so I have to get you in some way".. Grow up, and btw, Hakeem was WAY BETTER than Wilt was from the line, not even close.

Yeah, he made more FT's than Hakeem and Bird but he shot way more FT's on MUCH LOWER FT% and he missed most FT's in league HISTORY..

Wilt from the FT-line is equal to crap.

Once again...there were VERY FEW players, in NBA HISTORY, who had the IMPACT from the FT line that Chamberlain did. He POUNDED opposing teams from the line. AND, in doing so, he allowed his teammates to score much more from the FT line, as well.

[magnax1]

Damn bro.. you stealin my list.

Yeah, they definitely seemed like the obvious choices.

No.

Only big men can have a defensive impact that can match their offense[given that they are superstars].

Big men advantages over swingmen:
-huge advantage in defensive impact

Swingmen advantages over big men:
-better in the clutch

One has a defensive advantage and the other an offensive.

I mostly agree, but I think there are exceptions. Jordan wasn't balanced in the sense that he was the best offensive player, and obviously isn't the best defender ever. However, he made the impact of a lot of DPOTY level bigs, because he was a legitimate rim protector, created havoc by running around doubling and caused tons of turnovers. His only issue was that he also gave up some points because he gambled way to much when he did this and really ended up playing little one on one defense because of his roaming, which caused mismatches.
Anyway, my point was that there are some defensive wings who can do the same damage as defensive bigs. Usually they're super athletes like Jordan, but Bowen could have a DPOTY impact if he was guarding a superstar perimeter player. I'd agree that Perimeter guys that make that impact are extremely rare though.
Also I just wanted to say this to the people talking about Magic. He was among the worst defenders in the league. In no way was he balanced.... at all....

[LastEpisode]

Jordan.. Beast on offense and defense..

[EnoughSaid]

Hakeem. A monster on defense and arguably the best defensive center of all time, and the best post player of all time. Sounds balanced to me.

[jlauber]

How many other players have been considered the best defensive player in the league at times in their careers; have led the NBA in scoring; have led the NBA in rebounding; have led the league in FG%; led the NBA in FTs MADE in a season; and led the league in assists in a season? In fact, how many players have been considered the best defensive player in the league in seasons, as well as having the highest scoring season in NBA history; the highest rebounding season in NBA history; the highest FG% season in NBA history; the second most FTS MADE in a season in NBA history; and led the league in assists?

[chips93]

For those that see value in individual Defensive Ratings (which were begun in the 73-74 season...and AFTER Chamberlain and Russell retired)...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...tg_season.html

Kareem just blows Hakeem away.

how is defensive rating calculated?

[millwad]

How many other players have been considered the best defensive player in the league at times in their careers; have led the NBA in scoring; have led the NBA in rebounding; have led the league in FG%; led the NBA in FTs MADE in a season; and led the league in assists in a season? In fact, how many players have been considered the best defensive player in the league in seasons, as well as having the highest scoring season in NBA history; the highest rebounding season in NBA history; the highest FG% season in NBA history; the second most FTS MADE in a season in NBA history; and led the league in assists?

He played in a league with 9 teams and with less competition, the only top 10 center he faced in his prime was Bill Russell.

And stop spam about his FT-shooting, Wilt to this date is one of the worst FT-shooters of all-time, it's not even funny anymore.

[millwad]

Once again...there were VERY FEW players, in NBA HISTORY, who had the IMPACT from the FT line that Chamberlain did. He POUNDED opposing teams from the line. AND, in doing so, he allowed his teammates to score much more from the FT line, as well.

Once again, what you just wrote ain't what I'm talking about. I'm only talking about his skills from the FT-line and to this date he is one of the worst of all-time from the charity stripe so all the excuses you put up, quit them, it doesn't make him a better FT-shooter..

[jlauber]

He played in a league with 9 teams and with less competition, the only top 10 center he faced in his prime was Bill Russell.

And stop spam about his FT-shooting, Wilt to this date is one of the worst FT-shooters of all-time, it's not even funny anymore.

Chamberlain played in leagues that ranged from eight in '60 and '61, to nine from '62 to '66, to ten in '67, to 12 in '68, to 14 in '69, and 17 by the time he retired.

As for his "prime", just what is your definition of his "prime?" In his LAST season he LED the NBA in rebounding, was voted first team all-defense (over the likes of Thurmond, Cowens, Hayes, Lanier, Unseld, Reed, and Kareem...ALL among the greatest DEFENSIVE centers of all-time), AND, he shot .727 from the field...all while taking his Laker team to a 60-22 record and a trip to the Finals, where they lost four close games (all decided in the last minute) to a NY team that had SIX HOFers (and BTW, he averaged 22.5 rpg over the course of his 17 post-season games, and in 47.1 mpg..in a league that averaged 50.6 rpg.)

BTW, how good were those defensive centers I just mentioned?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...tg_career.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...tg_season.html

Hayes, Unseld, and Cowens all had a higher CAREER rating than Hakeem, AND, Hayes, Cowens, Lanier, Unseld, Thurmond, and Kareem all had higher PEAKS than Hakeem. And, keep in mind that that defensive rating was not established until the '73-74 season, and AFTER Wilt and Russell retired.


Or, perhaps you are referring to a "scoring" prime Chamberlain, who averaged 40 ppg over the course of his first seven seasons...COMBINED...and against the likes Reed, Bellamy, Beaty, Embry, Thurmond and Russell. And he was scoring that 40 ppg on shooting that was near 100 points higher than the league average in FG%, too. Of course, just because he cut back his scoring after the '66 season, didn't mean that he couldn't score. He put up the league highs in scoing in each season from '67 thru '69 (including THREE games of 60+ points), and, at the start of the '70 season, when his new coach asked him to score, he was averaging 32.2 ppg on 60% shooting in his first nine games, when he went down with a devastating knee injury.

Of course, he was the game's greatest rebounder his ENTIRE career, as well as the most efficient. He played in 29 post-season series, and was NEVER outrebounded in ANY of them. As for his competition? Reed, Bellamy, Lovellette, Embry, Thurmond, Unseld, Cowens, Lanier, Hayes, Lucas, Russell, and Kareem...ALL in the HOF. And he was outplaying them all even into his last season.