Most Balanced Player In NBA History?

[Hondo]

lol This entire argument is farcical and doesn't deserve to be addressed. Kobe isn't as good as (much less better than) Jordan in any defensive area, be it one-on-one defense, team/help defense, or disruptive defense. The area they are the closest is one-on-one D, but Jordan is still better there (and more consistent to boot). lmao @ calling Kobe a "game changer" on defense when he never, in any season, even APPROACHED Jordan's defensive impact on games from '88-'92.

Well I guess we share different points of view. I just know if I had to trust one guy for one position of a big game, it would be Kobe. I'm a Celtics fan for life, and I find Kobe Bryant to be a repulsive individual. I have seen Michael Jordan play on numerous occasions over my life, and he is far and away the better defender, but for one meaningful possession, give me Kobe.

[jlauber]

While I honestly believe Chamberlain's 66-67 as THE greatest season in NBA history, his defense that season was very under-rated (however, in the post-season he outshot Russell, .556 to .358, and then Thurmond, .560 to .343), but how about Wilt's 67-68 and 63-64 seasons.

In his 67-68 season, he averaged 24.3 ppg on .595 shooting ( in a league that shot .446), as well as LEADING the league in ASSISTS. AND, his Defensive Win Shares that season was 10.73, which ranks SEVENTH all-time (Russell has the top-SIX seasons BTW.) Oh, and he LED the NBA in rebounding (and by a wide margin, at 23.8...Lucas was a distant 2nd at 19.0 rpg.)

And in his 63-64 season, he LED the NBA in scoring, at 36.9 ppg, as well as coming in second in FG% at .524 (behind Lucas' .527), in a league that shot .433. AND, he had a Defensive Win Share rating of 10.58, which ranks 8th ALL-TIME (once again, Russell has the Top-SIX, and then Wilt has the next two highest of all-time.) Oh, and BTW, he came in 2nd, behind Russell, in rebounding, at 22.3 rpg.

You could also throw Wilt's '65-66 season in there, as well. An 8.50 Defensive Win Share rating, which ranks 17th all-time (and just behind Hakeem's BEST season of 8.74 in '90.) THEN, all Chamberlain did that season was LEAD the league in scoring, at 33.5 ppg, AND FG% (a then record of .540, in a league that shot .433), as well as leading the league in rebounding at 24.6 rpg. He also found time to hand outy 5.2 apg, too.

[NauruDude]

I think Ilgauskas at least never seen him fall.

[Sarcastic]

at Jordan making the list here.

Great defender.
Legendary offensive player.

The scales clearly tip in favor of his offensive game.

The only players that should be on this list are big men because their defensive impact can actually match their offensive impact.

Duncan
Hakeem
Wilt
Garnett
DRob
etc.

So what you are saying is only big men can have an impact on defense?

[jlauber]

For those that see value in individual Defensive Ratings (which were begun in the 73-74 season...and AFTER Chamberlain and Russell retired)...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...tg_season.html

Kareem just blows Hakeem away.

[Hondo]

For those that see value in individual Defensive Ratings (which were begun in the 73-74 season...and AFTER Chamberlain and Russell retired)...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...tg_season.html

Kareem just blows Hakeem away.

Nice to see you talk about someone other than Wilt.

Question for you, excluding the 60's and 70's, who is your GOAT? Who are your top 5 players after the 70's?

[jlauber]

Nice to see you talk about someone other than Wilt.

Question for you, excluding the 60's and 70's, who is your GOAT? Who are your top 5 players after the 70's?

Well, here is my all-time Top-10...

1. Russell
2. MJ
3. Magic
4. Wilt
5. Kareem
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Hakeem
10. Bird


So, it depends on where you place Kareem I guess.

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Duncan
6. Kobe, with Hakeem and Bird right there.

[RRR3]

Well, here is my all-time Top-10...

1. Russell
2. MJ
3. Magic
4. Wilt
5. Kareem
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Hakeem
10. Bird


So, it depends on where you place Kareem I guess.

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Duncan
6. Kobe, with Hakeem and Bird right there.

I thought you thought Wilt was the GOAT. LOL @ Russell first.

[jlauber]

I thought you thought Wilt was the GOAT. LOL @ Russell first.

Actually, I think you could make a case for almost any of my Top-10. Individually, and IMHO, Chamberlain was the most dominant player to ever play the game. Russell's strength resided in his ability to make his teammates better, and his opposing team's worse. Magic and Duncan were very similar.

I have gotten to the point where I won't argue with other's, though (as long as their opinions are educated one's.)

In any case, all of those guys were great. Why bother disparaging ANY of them?

[jlauber]

Regarding Kareem's defense, how about the Bucks FG% against in his '71, '72, '73, and '74 seasons?

.424, .420, .422, and .425.

[Hondo]

Well, here is my all-time Top-10...

1. Russell
2. MJ
3. Magic
4. Wilt
5. Kareem
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Hakeem
10. Bird


So, it depends on where you place Kareem I guess.

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Duncan
6. Kobe, with Hakeem and Bird right there.

That;s really interesting. As a lifelong Celtics fan, stretching back to the late 70's, I find it hard seeing Russ at number 1. He was too Zo Mourning for me to put him in at number 1. My top 10 looks a little like this:
1. Abdul-Jabbar
2. Jordan
3. Chamberlain
4. Russell
5. Bird
6. Johnson
7. O'Neal
8. Duncan
9. Bryant
10. Olajuwon/ Robertson/ Moses Malone

[NumberSix]

Kobe

[jlauber]

That;s really interesting. As a lifelong Celtics fan, stretching back to the late 70's, I find it hard seeing Russ at number 1. He was too Zo Mourning for me to put him in at number 1. My top 10 looks a little like this:
1. Abdul-Jabbar
2. Jordan
3. Chamberlain
4. Russell
5. Bird
6. Johnson
7. O'Neal
8. Duncan
9. Bryant
10. Olajuwon/ Robertson/ Moses Malone

I think that those 12, with West perhaps, are the general consensus for Top-13 in NBA history. Some might argue Mikan, but my problem with his place was that he was dominant before the 24 second clock (and really before the great Black players.) Of course, the order will change in most discussions, but those 13 are pretty much set in stone.

[millwad]

Chamberlain (and Shaq) MADE FTs. Wilt MADE over 600 more FTs in four less years than Hakeem.

Again this crap, yes, he made FT's but he did it with pathetic %. He missed most FT's by far and he is one of the worst FT-shooters of all-time.

[jlauber]

Again this crap, yes, he made FT's but he did it with pathetic %. He missed most FT's by far and he is one of the worst FT-shooters of all-time.

I have covered this STUPID response MANY times. Chamberlain's TEAMs benefitted from Wilt's FT shooting. EVERYONE of his TEAMS were among the leaders in FTAs, year-after-year. His '67 Sixers were MILES ahead of the league. And how about this...his 68-69 Lakers LED the league in FTAs. However, he was injured in game nine of the 69-70 season, and missed nearly the entire season. The result? LA finished ELEVENTH out of 14 teams in FTAs. THEN, he came back in the post-season, and the result? In the Finals, the Lakers probably shot nearly TWICE as many FTs as did the Knicks.

Chamberlain (and Shaq) probably had, BY FAR, the most "and-one's" in NBA history. On top of that, they not only got opposing centers in foul trouble, but ENTIRE teams in foul trouble...which resulted in more "unguarded" baskets for teammates, because either opposing players were in foul trouble, or they had an inferior bench player guarding them. And, of course, he got his team's into the "bonus" situation sooner, which resulted in MORE FTAs.