ISH Group Project: Ranking the top 25 NBA guards of all-time

[G.O.A.T]

ISH GROUP Project

Ranking the top 25 Guards in American Pro Basketball History

If you would like to join the project or participate in the upcoming forward and center projects, let us know in this thread...

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Official rules of the project

1) Only the votes of ISH members included in the main roster will count towards the final tally
1A) Please BOLD your vote to make it easier for me to see.

2) Voting starts when I create the thread and ends when I close it. All threads will stay open for at least 48 hours or until one candidate has received more than 50% of the possible votes.

3) In the event of a tie at the end of the 48+ hour period, I will announce sudden death and the next vote from a roster member or contributor will break the tie.

4) Anyone who distracts from the topic of the thread or those closely related and/or is seen as a general nuisance by the majority of interested parties on the roster may be removed from the project at any time. There is no appeal process.

5) Don't fu[COLOR="Black"]c[/COLOR]king take this seriously, it's an online list made by anonymous strangers.

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The Roster

L.Kizzle
ThaSwagg3r
Rose
WillC
G.O.A.T
1987 Lakers
neyca
Toizumi
Shaqattack3234
Magnax1
RobertdeMeijer
nycelt84
KGMN
SteveNashMVPcro

Crossover (added after initial vote)
bizil (added after initial vote)
Boston C's (added at #20)
Gotterdammerung (added at #17)
SuperPippen (added at #14)
Big164 (added at #13)
Droid101 (added at #11)
D.J. (added at #11)
Miller for 3 (added at #10)
Odinn (added at #9)
OmniStrife (added at #9)
HylianNightmare (added at #9)
Pushxx (added at #9)
MasterDurant24 (added at #9)
Clippersfan86 (added at #9)

ThaRegul8r (contributor)
NugzHeat3 (contributor)
Psileas (contributor)
Kblaze8855 (contributor)
alexandreben (contributor)
EricForman (contributor)



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Top 25
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#25 Joe Dumars
#24 Earl Monroe
#23 Tracy McGrady
#22 Tiny Archibald
#21 Dennis Johnson
#20 Reggie Miller
#19 Ray Allen
#18 Sam Jones
#17 Hal Greer
#16 George Gervin
#15 Allen Iverson
#14 Gary Payton
#13 Clyde Drexler
#12 Steve Nash
#11 Jason Kidd
#10 John Stockton
#9
#8

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Debate Threads
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#7
#8 Dwyane Wade vs. Walt Frazier
#9 John Stockton vs. Walt Frazier (11-12)
#10 John Stockton vs. Jason Kidd (13-3)
#11 Steve Nash vs. Jason Kidd (9-10)
#12 Steve Nash vs. Clyde Drexler (10-9)
#13 Steve Nash vs. Gary Payton (11-4)
#14 Allen Iverson vs. Gary Payton (3-13)
#15 Allen Iverson vs. George Gervin (9-6)
#16 Hal Greer vs. George Gervin (2-10)
#17 Hal Greer vs. Sam Jones (8-7)
#18 Hal Greer vs. Ray Allen (11-3)
#19 Reggie Miller vs. Ray Allen (4-8)
#20 Reggie Miller vs. Dennis Johnson (10-4)
#21 Tiny Archibald vs. Dennis Johnson (6-7)
#22 Tiny Archibald vs. Tracy McGrady (7-6)
#23 Earl Monroe vs. Tiny Archibald (0-9)
#24 Earl Monroe vs. Joe Dumars (5-3)
#25 Bill Sharman vs. Joe Dumars (4-5)
Kevin Johnson vs. Bill Sharman (4-6)
Chris Paul vs. Joe Dumars (7-8)

[L.Kizzle]

So here is the idea. We take the collective intelligence of ISH (I know scary right) and try to come up with a list of the best 25 guards, forwards and centers in NBA history.

We eliminate PG vs. SG and SF vs. PF which eliminates those pointless debates. The only tough one will be Tim Duncan, but I think he has to go as a F since PF is officially his position.

Here's how it works. Volunteer to participate, if two other members vouch for you, you're in. We'll take between 15 and 25 people for the project.

The opening round will be everyone making their own top 25 list and posting it/editing it as the debate goes on. After a week everyone's list will be final. I'll assign points (25 for first, 1 for 25th) and tally up each players score then post the top 26. From there we will debate and vote on individual match-ups starting with #26 vs. #25. The player who wins the vote will advance to face the #24 ranked player and we will debate that. The player who losses the vote will be slotted in the appropriate spot and that will be our final result.

Do we have any interest?

I'm down. I have an old list I made a while back I'll try to search for.

[ThaSwagg3r]

I will participate in this project.

[L.Kizzle]

We gotta start off by who a guard and who's a forward?

Arizin
McGrady
Vince Carter
Lou Hudson
Cliff Hagan
Richie Guerin

Are they gonna be small forwards or shooting guards in these rankings.

[WillC]

I know I'm new to the boards, but I'd be very interested and feel qualified to join in.

[G.O.A.T]

We gotta start off by who a guard and who's a forward?

Arizin
McGrady
Vince Carter
Lou Hudson
Cliff Hagan
Richie Guerin

Are they gonna be small forwards or shooting guards in these rankings.

Arizin and Hagan almost always played forward. They never started at guard.

I see Vince and T-MAC as guards as well as Richie Guerin who always played guard from what I can recall, first alongside Dick McGuire, then Lenny Wilkens.

Hudson is a forward.

Any objections there?

[ThaSwagg3r]

Here's how it works. Volunteer to participate, if two other members vouch for you, you're in. We'll take between 15 and 25 people for the project.

I think you're asking for too much here. I feel like only 10-15 will participate at the most, 25 is too much. And I don't know about the vouching part because that will probably take a while. Maybe you should just get these possible participants to just show (link) their best posts on this site and you judge whether they are worthy or not.

[G.O.A.T]

I know I'm new to the boards, but I'd be very interested and feel qualified to join in.

I'll be the first to vouch for you based on your blog alone.

Also @ ALL

Here is a list of sixty-four guards I believe we should consider:

Allen, Ray
Archibald, Nate
Billups, Chauncey
Bing, Dave
Bryant, Kobe
Carter, Vince
Cassell, Sam
Cheeks, Maurice
Cousy, Bob
Davies, Bob
Davis, Walter
Drexler, Clyde
Dumars, Joe
Frazier, Walt
Gervin, George
Ginobili, Manu
Gola, Tom
Goodrich, Gail
Greer, Hal
Guerin, Richie
Hardaway, Anfernee
Hardaway, Tim
Iverson, Allen
Johnson, Dennis
Johnson, Kevin
Johnson, Magic
Jones, Sam
Jordan, Michael
Kidd, Jason
Maravich, Pete
Martin, Slater
McGrady, Tracy
McGuire, Dick
Miller, Reggie
Moncrief, Sidney
Monroe, Earl
Nash, Steve
Nixon, Norm
Parker, Tony
Paul, Chris
Payton, Gary
Price, Mark
Richmond, Mitch
Robertson, Alvin
Robertson, Oscar
Rodgers, Guy
Rose, Derrick
Seymour, Paul
Sharman, Bill
Sloan, Jerry
Sprewell, Latrell
Stockton, John
Thomas, Isiah
Thompson, David
Van Lier, Norm
Wade, Dwyane
Wanzer, Bobby
West, Jerry
Westphal, Paul
White, JoJo
Wilkens, Lenny
Williams, Deron
Williams, Gus
Zaslofsky, Max

[G.O.A.T]

I think you're asking for too much here. I feel like only 10-15 will participate at the most, 25 is too much. And I don't know about the vouching part because that will probably take a while. Maybe you should just get these possible participants to just show (link) their best posts on this site and you judge whether they are worthy or not.

I was mostly just trying to put a limit on it. This project is very flexible. Just gauging response right now.

[RRR3]

This isn't in order or final, just off the top of my head...

MJ
Kobe
Magic
Gervin
Oscar Robertson
T-Mac
Vince Carter
AI
Drexler
West
Havlicek?
DWade
Ray Allen
Payton
Frazier
Stockton
Kidd

[Rose]

This isn't in order or final, just off the top of my head...

MJ
Kobe
Magic
Gervin
Oscar Robertson
T-Mac
Vince Carter
AI
Drexler
West
Havlicek?
DWade
Ray Allen
Payton
Frazier
Stockton
Kidd

I'm gonna start with this guys list and take off Havlicek because I think he's more of a Small forward. And I'd add Nash, KJ, Dwill, Cousy, Zeke and then for the other 3 slots probably...Reggie, Pistol, and hmm...I have no clue. Those are around my top 25. Although Carter and T-Mac I could easily say their way out of it.

Sam Jones, Hal Greer, and Jerry Sloan as well. Shit forgot Pearl

Just realized I forgot CP3. lol. That definitely throws out Dwill.

[G.O.A.T]

I'm gonna start with this guys list and take off Havlicek because I think he's more of a Small forward. And I'd add Nash, KJ, Dwill, Cousy, Zeke and then for the other 3 slots probably...Reggie, Pistol, and hmm...I have no clue. Those are around my top 25. Although Carter and T-Mac I could easily say their way out of it.

Sam Jones, Hal Greer, and Jerry Sloan as well.

you in? this is sort of the next best thing to my failed panel of 21 idea...

[RRR3]

I'm gonna start with this guys list and take off Havlicek because I think he's more of a Small forward. And I'd add Nash, KJ, Dwill, Cousy, Zeke and then for the other 3 slots probably...Reggie, Pistol, and hmm...I have no clue. Those are around my top 25. Although Carter and T-Mac I could easily say their way out of it.

Sam Jones, Hal Greer, and Jerry Sloan as well.

You have to consider that McGrady's peak shits on most of those guys you listed. He's had a better career than Cousy, DWill and KJ IMO. Certainly Dwill who hasn't played long enough. VC's peak was pretty great too. One thing that always shocks me is how good of a 3pt shooter VC was.

[Rose]

you in? this is sort of the next best thing to my failed panel of 21 idea...

Haha it failed? Not enough interest?

I'll definitely comment and help. But much before the 80s, and basically all I know is Bill Simmons opinion. Except on the important guys that are top 50 or so,

[WillC]

You have to consider that McGrady's peak shits on most of those guys you listed. He's had a better career than Cousy, DWill and KJ IMO. Certainly Dwill who hasn't played long enough. VC's peak was pretty great too. One thing that always shocks me is how good of a 3pt shooter VC was.

McGrady has had a better career than Cousy? Wow. What criteria are you using? PPG?

Cousy was All-NBA 1st Team 10 times and won multiple championships.

McGrady never got out of the 1st round of the playoffs.