Bruce Blitz'a Top 50 Players of All Time

[Jacks3]

For a significant number of defensive rebounds, there are multiple defensive players present for the rebound (could get the rebound), while the offense has already cleared out to cut off the fast break. These rebounds do not show value or skill to the player who gets them, but are rather a random/confounding variable. For some teams, their center will grab such "garbage" rebounds. For other teams, maybe the PG will grab them himself (I see OKC and Russel Westbrook do this, or Kidd with the Nets).

[jlauber]

Oscar won a total of 2 playoff series when he was the man, I believe and thats around a decade...with just 2 playoff series wins.

West was at least contending every year, won a title as arguably the best player(or certainly closer to Wilt than Oscar was to Kareem), would have won in '69 had Wilt and Baylor showed up at all, and this is legit considering West won finals MVP on the losing team in a close 7 game series.

Let's examine this a little closer, shall we? First of all, the Lakers were ONE PLAY away from running away with that series, 4 games to 1. Johnny Egan's gaffe at the end of game four prevented LA from winning that game, and then after Wilt CRUSHED Russell in game five (outscoring him and outrebounding him by a 31-13 margin), the Lakers would have won that series, 4-1. Of course the REAL REASON why the Lakers lost that Finals was because of INCOMPETENT coaching. Why was Wilt on the bench in the last five minutes of that game seven? And why was Mel f*****g Counts playing in those last five minutes ( he would miss a couple of shots down the stretch, and wound up 4-13 from the floor)? BTW, it was WEST with a couple of turnovers in those final five minutes, too. Of course, Baylor was nowhere to be found in games three thru five (a COMBINED 24 points), two of the losses. And another example of idiotic coaching...how about early in the 4th quarter of that game seven...when the Lakers passed the ball into Chamberlain, and he went right around a defenseless Russell, who was saddled with five fouls, for an easy finger-roll. Guess what, ...Wilt did not get another pass near the rim the rest of the game. Even a below-average coach would have force-fed the ball into Wilt's hands the rest of the game. Not the truly bumbling Van Breda Kolf, who did everything in his power to PREVENT Wilt from dominating in the Finals. In any case, Wilt outscored and outrebounded Russell in that series (as he always did), and he most certainly outshot him, (although we don't have the numbers...Wilt shot .545 in the playoffs, while Russell shot .423.) And how about that game seven again? Russell, in 48 minutes, scored SIX points, on 2-7 shooting, with 21 rebounds. In his 43 minutes, Chamberlain scored 18 points, on 7-8 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Oh, and BTW...ANOTHER example of truly horrid COACHING? While Van Breda Kolf schackled Wilt on offense, he gave Baylor the green light. How did that work out? Baylor shot .385 in the post-season, while Chamberlain shot .545.

And while West deserves a ranking in the top-15, he should be FAR behind Wilt. Why? Ok, ShaqAttack blames WILT for losing the '69 Finals. How about West in the '70 Finals? In game seven, Wilt was the ONLY Laker who showed up. Meanwhile West was murdered by Frazier, and the game was over by halftime.

BTW, Wilt PLAYED in the '70 Finals, despite being four months removed from major knee surgery. Why is that important? Because West MISSED the '71 playoffs (as did Baylor), while a well-past his prime Wilt battled a prime Kareem to a draw in the '71 WCF's.

Of course, how about the '72 post-season? While West was mired in the worst shooting slump of his career (.376 in the playoffs), Wilt outplayed a prime Kareem, and then dominated the Knicks in the Finals (including a clinching game five performance with one badly sprained wrist, and the other FRACTURED), in which Chamberlain won the FINALS MVP.

And in Wilt's last Finals, in 72-73, West was again awful, while Wilt did all he could, including his very last game of his career, in which he scored 23 points with 21 rebounds.

In Wilt's five seasons in LA, the Lakers went to the Finals in FOUR of them, and had West (and Baylor) not missed the '71 post-season, it probably would have been 5-5. BEFORE Wilt, the Lakers best record in LA was 52-30. With Wilt, they went 55-27, then he missed nearly all of '70, and they only went 46-36. Meanwhile Baylor missed all but two games in '71, and West missed the entire last third of the season, and LA still went 48-34 with Chamberlain. In '72 they went 69-13 (with an overwhelming title), and in Wilt's last season in LA, they went 60-22 (and yet another Finals.) AFTER Wilt, they fell to 47-35, and a first round playoff sweeping loss.)

So, yes, West is a top-15 player, but he is WAY behind Chamberlain.

[Nastradamus]

Hakeem being greater than Shaq is also laughable.

Oscar greater than Shaq and Duncan?

All of these things are at least debatable. Shaq was slightly more dominant offensively, but Hakeem was much more impactful defensively and he also never played on near the caliber of teams Shaq did. Even once he got Drexler past prime(though still a stud), his teams were pretty average. Similar to the Lebron Cavs teams, the Iverson Philly teams or the Tim Duncan Spurs for title #2. They were even worse in the first few years of his career. So you can't really use rings against him. He took worse teams to multiple rings.

[PHILA]

Of course the REAL REASON why the Lakers lost that Finals was because of INCOMPETENT coaching.

Besides G5 of the Finals when Butch inexplicably left West in at the end of a decided game to badly injure a hamstring (could not effectively guard Sam Jones anymore, who went wild), there was the infamous G7.





'After Van Breda Kolff was gone, Chamberlain criticized his heavy drinking, his penchant for conducting farting contests, and his failure to prepare for games.'



Tall Tales: The Glory Years of the NBA - Terry Pluto

Earl Strom: In a sense, I respect Butch for making one of the dumbest moves any coach has ever made.






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain

[i]Game 7 featured a surreal scene: in anticipation of a Lakers win, Lakers owner Jack Kent Cooke had put up thousands of balloons in the rafters of the Forum in Los Angeles. This display of arrogance motivated the Celtics and angered Jerry West.[75] In that match, Chamberlain experienced his second Game 7 debacle. The Lakers trailed by 76

[ShaqAttack3234]

Let's examine this a little closer, shall we? First of all, the Lakers were ONE PLAY away from running away with that series, 4 games to 1. Johnny Egan's gaffe at the end of game four prevented LA from winning that game, and then after Wilt CRUSHED Russell in game five (outscoring him and outrebounding him by a 31-13 margin), the Lakers would have won that series, 4-1. Of course the REAL REASON why the Lakers lost that Finals was because of INCOMPETENT coaching. Why was Wilt on the bench in the last five minutes of that game seven? And why was Mel f*****g Counts playing in those last five minutes ( he would miss a couple of shots down the stretch, and wound up 4-13 from the floor)? BTW, it was WEST with a couple of turnovers in those final five minutes, too. Of course, Baylor was nowhere to be found in games three thru five (a COMBINED 24 points), two of the losses. And another example of idiotic coaching...how about early in the 4th quarter of that game seven...when the Lakers passed the ball into Chamberlain, and he went right around a defenseless Russell, who was saddled with five fouls, for an easy finger-roll. Guess what, ...Wilt did not get another pass near the rim the rest of the game. Even a below-average coach would have force-fed the ball into Wilt's hands the rest of the game. Not the truly bumbling Van Breda Kolf, who did everything in his power to PREVENT Wilt from dominating in the Finals. In any case, Wilt outscored and outrebounded Russell in that series (as he always did), and he most certainly outshot him, (although we don't have the numbers...Wilt shot .545 in the playoffs, while Russell shot .423.) And how about that game seven again? Russell, in 48 minutes, scored SIX points, on 2-7 shooting, with 21 rebounds. In his 43 minutes, Chamberlain scored 18 points, on 7-8 shooting, with 27 rebounds. Oh, and BTW...ANOTHER example of truly horrid COACHING? While Van Breda Kolf schackled Wilt on offense, he gave Baylor the green light. How did that work out? Baylor shot .385 in the post-season, while Chamberlain shot .545.

And while West deserves a ranking in the top-15, he should be FAR behind Wilt. Why? Ok, ShaqAttack blames WILT for losing the '69 Finals. How about West in the '70 Finals? In game seven, Wilt was the ONLY Laker who showed up. Meanwhile West was murdered by Frazier, and the game was over by halftime.

BTW, Wilt PLAYED in the '70 Finals, despite being four months removed from major knee surgery. Why is that important? Because West MISSED the '71 playoffs (as did Baylor), while a well-past his prime Wilt battled a prime Kareem to a draw in the '71 WCF's.

Of course, how about the '72 post-season? While West was mired in the worst shooting slump of his career (.376 in the playoffs), Wilt outplayed a prime Kareem, and then dominated the Knicks in the Finals (including a clinching game five performance with one badly sprained wrist, and the other FRACTURED), in which Chamberlain won the FINALS MVP.

And in Wilt's last Finals, in 72-73, West was again awful, while Wilt did all he could, including his very last game of his career, in which he scored 23 points with 21 rebounds.

In Wilt's five seasons in LA, the Lakers went to the Finals in FOUR of them, and had West (and Baylor) not missed the '71 post-season, it probably would have been 5-5. BEFORE Wilt, the Lakers best record in LA was 52-30. With Wilt, they went 55-27, then he missed nearly all of '70, and they only went 46-36. Meanwhile Baylor missed all but two games in '71, and West missed the entire last third of the season, and LA still went 48-34 with Chamberlain. In '72 they went 69-13 (with an overwhelming title), and in Wilt's last season in LA, they went 60-22 (and yet another Finals.) AFTER Wilt, they fell to 47-35, and a first round playoff sweeping loss.)

So, yes, West is a top-15 player, but he is WAY behind Chamberlain.

Didn't Wilt average 11.7 ****ing ppg in the '69 finals after averaging over 20 during the '69 season?

Wow, Wilt improved the Lakers from a 52-30 team that lost in the finals to a 55-27 team that lost in the finals....what an impact!

And that 3 game improvement came with West playing 10 more games in '69 than '68. That improvement is STAGGERING.

I've said this many times, but it's funny how you keep bringing up the Lakers falling from 60-22 to 47-35 after Wilt retired without mentioning that West went from playing 69 games in '73 to 31 in '74.

[chazzy]

Actually, I remember thinking he was padding his rebounding numbers during game 6 vs Boston in 2010 in particular. Haven't seen the game since, but I'll have to keep more of an eye on that next time I watch that game.

He was flying in from halfcourt to grab missed opposing FTs over teammates. I couldn't believe his final statline when the game was over

[jlauber]

Didn't Wilt average 11.7 ****ing ppg in the '69 finals after averaging over 20 during the '69 season?

Wow, Wilt improved the Lakers from a 52-30 team that lost in the finals to a 55-27 team that lost in the finals....what an impact!

And that 3 game improvement came with West playing 10 more games in '69 than '68. That improvement is STAGGERING.

I've said this many times, but it's funny how you keep bringing up the Lakers falling from 60-22 to 47-35 after Wilt retired without mentioning that West went from playing 69 games in '73 to 31 in '74.

Wilt averaging 11.7 in the Finals (and probably on well over 55%...since he shot 50% against Thurmond in a previous round)..along with being the BEST rebounder in the series at 25 rpg!

How about that "improvement?" Wilt was TRADED for THREE players, and then the Lakers lost HOFer Goodrich in the expansion draft. So, Wilt effectively replaced 42 ppg and 18 rpg (with only Johnny Egan and his measley 8 ppg and blown game four of the Finals as the other replacement) . West also missed 20 games in the '69 season...so with ALL of that, the Lakers set a franchise record with a 55-27 record. I also found this VERY fascinating. In Wilt's last season in Philadelphia, he took a team that was DEVASTATED by injuries, to a game seven, four loss to the Celtics in the ECF's. He was "traded" to the Lakers...and how did his replacements perform in the post-season in Philly? They averaged 36 ppg and 20 rpg on .510 shooting...and yet, Boston blew them out in the first round, 4-1. Think about that...Wilt averaged 12 ppg and 25 rpg in the Finals, and yet the Lakers STILL lost a game seven by TWO points (and with Wilt missing the last 5-6 minutes.) His IMPACT was STAGGERING.

Of course, looking at Wilt's ENTIRE career, in comparison to West's, is simply a ROUT. Wilt took FAR less talented teama further early in his career, than a West-Baylor combo could together (and both of those players are generally ranked in the top-20 BTW.) THEN, when Wilt finally had a semblance of surrounding talent, he took his teams to the BEST RECORD in the league in his three full seasons in Philadelphia (as well as taking a 40-40 76er team to a game seven, ONE point loss to the HOF-laden and 62-18 Celtics in the '65 ECF's...while West could only watch as the Celtics crushed his team in the Finals, 4-1.)

Wilt not only DRAMATICALLY improved EVERY team he joined...EVERY team he left became MUCH worse...especially over the course of their next SEVERAL seasons. EVERY team he joined set a TEAM RECORD for W-L (and in fact, TWO of them are STILL team recordsa with the Sixers and Lakers.) And EVERY team he left either missed the playoffs altogether...or were eliminated 4-1 and 4-1 in the FIRST ROUND of the playoffs.)

Once again, as great as West was, and he is certainly top-15, his career PALES in comparison to Wilt's.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Wilt averaging 11.7 in the Finals (and probably on well over 55%...since he shot 50% against Thurmond in a previous round)..along with being the BEST rebounder in the series at 25 rpg!

How about that "improvement?" Wilt was TRADED for THREE players, and then the Lakers lost HOFer Goodrich in the expansion draft. So, Wilt effectively replaced 42 ppg and 18 rpg (with only Johnny Egan and his measley 8 ppg and blown game four of the Finals as the other replacement) . West also missed 20 games in the '69 season...so with ALL of that, the Lakers set a franchise record with a 55-27 record. I also found this VERY fascinating. In Wilt's last season in Philadelphia, he took a team that was DEVASTATED by injuries, to a game seven, four loss to the Celtics in the ECF's. He was "traded" to the Lakers...and how did his replacements perform in the post-season in Philly? They averaged 36 ppg and 20 rpg on .510 shooting...and yet, Boston blew them out in the first round, 4-1. Think about that...Wilt averaged 12 ppg and 25 rpg in the Finals, and yet the Lakers STILL lost a game seven by TWO points (and with Wilt missing the last 5-6 minutes.) His IMPACT was STAGGERING.

Of course, looking at Wilt's ENTIRE career, in comparison to West's, is simply a ROUT. Wilt took FAR less talented teama further early in his career, than a West-Baylor combo could together (and both of those players are generally ranked in the top-20 BTW.) THEN, when Wilt finally had a semblance of surrounding talent, he took his teams to the BEST RECORD in the league in his three full seasons in Philadelphia (as well as taking a 40-40 76er team to a game seven, ONE point loss to the HOF-laden and 62-18 Celtics in the '65 ECF's...while West could only watch as the Celtics crushed his team in the Finals, 4-1.)

Wilt not only DRAMATICALLY improved EVERY team he joined...EVERY team he left became MUCH worse...especially over the course of their next SEVERAL seasons. EVERY team he joined set a TEAM RECORD for W-L (and in fact, TWO of them are STILL team recordsa with the Sixers and Lakers.) And EVERY team he left either missed the playoffs altogether...or were eliminated 4-1 and 4-1 in the FIRST ROUND of the playoffs.)

Once again, as great as West was, and he is certainly top-15, his career PALES in comparison to Wilt's.

Still not addressing my point about you always bringing up the 13 game decline from '73 to '74 without mentioning that West went from playing 69 games to 31? I didn't expect you to, you'll probably always use the same walls of misleading text when someone calls you on something.

[Samurai Swoosh]

His rebounding average has always been overrated. He's the king of cleaning up easy rebounds on the defensive glass. His offensive rebound numbers (the rebounds you actually have to fight for) have always been pathetic. Rose had more offensive rebounds than him this season, same with Westbrook, Rondo etc etc...fukk Steve Nash in his prime was almost getting as many as LeBron does. Took the dude over two freaking weeks to grab his first offensive rebound this season.

I didn't know about those offensive rebound numbers, but yea that's crazy. Guy stat pads a lot of things. FG% too as we saw as recently as the NBA Finals.

[zay_24]

Kobe is number 1


































BEAN!

[jlauber]

Still not addressing my point about you always bringing up the 13 game decline from '73 to '74 without mentioning that West went from playing 69 games to 31? I didn't expect you to, you'll probably always use the same walls of misleading text when someone calls you on something.

YOU are the one that is the master of mis-leading information. You and Fatal9 with your blatant anti-Wilt agenda, even though I have consistently BLOWN-UP EVERY single argument you two have conjured up. It amazes me that you two morons can rank Hakeem, who was a career first round loser (EIGHT times in 15 post-seasons), who only played on five 50+ win teams in 18 seasons (and never a 60 win team), and only four Conference finalists, and only three finals...in 18 seasons...and with FAR less accolades and statistical achievements, over a Wilt who took TWELVE teams to the Conference Finals, SIX to the Finals, as well as FOUR teams to the best record in the league, and FOUR teams with 60+ wins...in his 14 seasons. Of course, Wilt also had a 4-1 edge in MVPs (and it SHOULD have been as many as SEVEN ... in '62 for sure, '69, and '72.) And, of course, the RECORD BOOK CLEARLY ranks Wilt MILES ahead of Hakeem, too.

THAT is pure GARBAGE the two of you constantly spew on this forum.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Who inspired jlauber to come in here along with his guy "PHILA"?

Absolute thread KILLERS.

[YAWN]

lots of fail in this list. but its to be expected from anything that bruce blitz spews

[jlauber]

Who inspired jlauber to come in here along with his guy "PHILA"?

Absolute thread KILLERS.

Blame your boy ShaqAttack...who once again could not resist the urge to take a swing at Chamberlain..."who did not show up" in the '69 Finals...except to the point of outplaying HOFer Russell, and by leading BOTH teams in rebounds.

The same ShaqAttack that has Hakeem and Bird in his top-5, and Russell at #9, and Wilt at #10. Hakeem won two titles. Who did he beat? He beat the Knicks in seven games in '94, and the Magic in '95. Let's see...where was MJ in '94? Oh, and how many HOFers were on the Knicks and Magic? Meanwhile, in Wilt's first TEN seasons, he played in a league in which the greatest dynasty in professional team sports resided. A Celtic team that had anywhere from FIVE to NINE HOFers (and a HOF coach) in those ten seasons. In his last four seasons, Chamberlain faced the Knicks, and their FOUR HOFers in '70. Then, in '71, he faced the Kareem-Oscar Bucks (66-16) without BOTH Baylor and West. Then he BEAT that same 63-19 Bucks team the very next season, as well as the Knicks and their FIVE HOFers in the Finals. And in his last season, he again faced the Knicks and their SIX HOFers.

Bird and Hakeem's career's were LIGHT YEARS behind Wilt's.

[Bring-Your-Js]

Jlauber to be fair, you seem to carry an anti-Kareem, anti-Bird agenda yourself. Most definitely where Olajuwon is concerned as well.