"Kobe had Shaq and Gasol, plus he played on stacked teams"

[The Iron Fist]

I think the bottomline he isn't credited as much because he isn't good enough.

He isn't a Shaq who put incredibly monster numbers and nobody could stop.

He isn't a Bird/Magic who impacted the game in many ways and establish teamplay.

He isn't a Kareem.

He's not as good as those guys in their prime or had a impact on the floor like those guys did according to most people if we are talking about all time greats. Kobe fans like constantly compare to other greats, who people think/know are better. Fan battles are annoying, and Kobe probably has the most fans atm. Some are trolls, some don't pay attention to facts, and some don't pay attention to tangibles. It could be that most of the people here are young and didn't watch b-ball before 2000 because they make crazy statements or attempt to rewrite history in their mind.

IMO, Kobe is great, but isn't good enough. But we'll see. His career is still going strong and his game is still there, so who knows where he'll end up. If he keeps playing at a high level in a few years more in his 30s, then after he retires people will credit him more accurately.

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Plus people hate him because he's a laker, has the most fans, and he is one of the best. If he's not on your team, then usually people hate.

But he is consider a top 10 player, and is still one of the best player in the league. So he is credited. Just people feel that there were better players in the past.

Why does Kobe have to be any of those players you mentioned?

The majority of his peers say he is the best of his generation. lol, "he has no impact on the floor".

Really? So why then, in 06 and 07, in the preseason projections, did most people have the Lakers pegged for 11th and 12th in the west? If he had no impact, how did he get his teams to even make the playoffs in those years where mostly everyone thought he couldn't lead his team anywhere near the post season?

Who should he have won with in order to gain the respect from those who say "he had Shaq and Gasol".

[G-Funk]

I wanna know where Gasol ranks amongst the best 2nd options

[LA_Showtime]

I wanna know where Gasol ranks amongst the best 2nd options

That's another thing. I really don't think Kobe gets enough credit for helping Gasol mold his game and become a more aggressive player. While Gasol's numbers aren't necessarily better, his impact on the game has improved tremendously since joining the Lakers. The largest jump came after the 2008 Finals. Obviously Gasol deserves most of the credit for improving his game and becoming a tougher player, though.

[Timmy D for MVP]

I wanna know where Gasol ranks amongst the best 2nd options

Pretty damn high.

There are teams like those stacked Lakers teams in the 80's, or the Celtics, but he has to rank very high.

Actually I'm not sure why Laker fans don't talk about that more. Most of us agree Kobe is top-10. But even basketball guys have a hard time placing Gasol.

[LA_Showtime]

Pretty damn high.

There are teams like those stacked Lakers teams in the 80's, or the Celtics, but he has to rank very high.

Actually I'm not sure why Laker fans don't talk about that more. Most of us agree Kobe is top-10. But even basketball guys have a hard time placing Gasol.

It's almost impossible to rank Gasol at this point. Look at how much his stock has gone up since joining the Lakers. If they win another championship or two and he wins a Finals MVP then he could potentially move up 10-20 (maybe even more) spots. He's definitely a lock for the hall of fame.

[AlphaWolf24]

I wanna know where Gasol ranks amongst the best 2nd options

way behind Pippen , Jones ,Kareem , McHale , Worthy ,Drexler , Lebron , Ginobli , etc.

[Timmy D for MVP]

It's almost impossible to rank Gasol at this point. Look at how much his stock has gone up since joining the Lakers. If they win another championship or two and he wins a Finals MVP then he could potentially move up 10-20 (maybe even more) spots. He's definitely a lock for the hall of fame.

I agree. However it is clear to me personally his greatness, and has been clear for a very long while now.

But it seems other people really don't want to call him great. I don't understand that at all.

[G-Funk]

I remember nobody wanted Gasol on their team...

[LA_Showtime]

I agree. However it is clear to me personally his greatness, and has been clear for a very long while now.

But it seems other people really don't want to call him great. I don't understand that at all.

I just hate when people say he was this overlooked, superstar caliber player in Memphis. He's done a complete 180 since coming to LA. He's always had the skills to a dominant player, but before he lacked the necessary toughness and was wasting away in Memphis.

[Poochymama]

Lakers fan: Kobe is a great player and has had a great career. He's potentially a top 10-12 player.

Jordan fan: He's not better than Jordan. Stop saying he's better than Jordan. Jordan has superior stats and Kobe plays with 3 7 footers; I know Lamar Odom technically isn't a 7 footer but he's basically one.

Lakers fan: What are you talking about? No one said Kobe's better than Jordan.

Jordan fan: Troll! Everyone says Kobe's better than Jordan.

A moron enters the thread: Kobe is not better than Jordan. Kobe is not clutch. Dirk is better than Kobe. Nash is better than Kobe. I am better than Kobe. Fact.

A Kobe troll enters the thread: Kobe is better than Jordan. You suck.

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Rinse and repeat.

That's basically ISH.

Even the most die hard kobe fanatics tend to agree that Jordan > Kobe. Most of them are are just trying to push "Kobe top 5" or something along those lines, but somehow it always turns into Kobe vs Jordan.

Well, at least until this new AlphaWolf guy came along. He and his whole Kobe > Jordan, afro Kobe > Prime Shaq represent a whole new breed of Kobe fanatics.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Trade these players

Artest for Grant Hill
Gasol for Channing Frye
Bynum for Robin Lopez
Odom for Gortat
Shannon Brown for Vince Carter

Then hey he ****ing deserved that shit. Oh and pretend Kobe is white like Steve Nash in the racist NBA, so he don't goto the foul line if he gets breathed on. Then he tottally deserves that shit.

[LA_Showtime]

Trade these players

Artest for Grant Hill
Gasol for Channing Frye
Bynum for Robin Lopez
Odom for Gortat
Shannon Brown for Vince Carter

Then hey he ****ing deserved that shit. Oh and pretend Kobe is white like Steve Nash in the racist NBA, so he don't goto the foul line if he gets breathed on. Then he tottally deserves that shit.

What are you on about? Thanks for contributing nothing to this thread...

This guy is the moron who enters the thread.

[Rashard]

To some people ( those with an agenda) Kobe would have to carry 14 absolute scrubs to a title before they will give him any credit. Eventhough no player in the history of the game has carried 14 scrubs to a title, Kobe would have to be the first, one and only. Kobe has done it all and yet those with an agenda will continue to try to belittle his accomplishments. No matter what he does, it's never enough of some people's eyes.

He's won titles as a first option, a 1A option and a second option. He carried a scrub filled roster ( Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Chucky Atkins and Luke Walton) to a playoff birth and a near upset in a stacked Western Conference at the time. He's not MVP worthy when he straps a bunch of scrubs on his back and he's not MVP worthy when he has talented players around him and leads them to multiple championships. Nothing is ever enough. Reason being? Agenda.

[icewill36]

no one is saying kobe isnt great. the thing is people try to discredit others for not winning rings when they havent had the same level of help. people act like other great players in the league couldnt have won on those stacked teams therefore kobe is somehow superior.

[LA_Showtime]

no one is saying kobe isnt great. the thing is people try to discredit others for not winning rings when they havent had the same level of help. people act like other great players in the league couldnt have won on those stacked teams therefore kobe is somehow superior.

Kobe's the only guy who gets the "Well if you replace him with so and so they'd still win" treatment. I love how people assume Vince Carter or T-Mac would have produced the same results, especially since everyone calls those players lazy and career underachievers, the exact opposite of Kobe Bryant.