Defensive Player of The Year 1955-1982

[SHAQisGOAT]

Imo...

1982 - Jack Sikma
1981 - Dennis Johnson
1980 - Dan Roundfield or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1979 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1978 - Bill Walton
1977 - Bobby Jones
1976 - Dave Cowens
1975 - Elvin Hayes
1974 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1973 - Wilt Chamberlain or maybe even Walt Frazier
1972 - Wilt Chamberlain
1971 - Nate Thurmond
1970 - Gus Johnson, Willis Reed or Walt Frazier (hard to say exactly)
1969 - probably still Bill Russell
1968 - Wilt Chamberlain

And back before that everything goes to Bill Russell since the late 1950's, Wilt with a great chance in 1967 or so but, still, that's like 9 more added to Bill Russell, making it 10 overall with the 1969 one, which is just crazy GOAT defensive player.

People need to look at stuff like this and remind themselves that the DPOY wasn't awarded up until 1983... Can't take away from certain player's legacy due to it.

So Bill Russell would have had like 10 DPOY and 7 FMVPs, if they had been handed out back then. Might have helped his GOAT case.

Pretty much. Definitely, at least in certain people's minds.

[ArbitraryWater]

Really interested in this type of stuff...

Anyway, this same thing was done on another board, as like a project... people voted on it I think, didn't take part yet..

But these are the results on there, with a discussion going on for each year:

[La Frescobaldi]

Larry O'Brien the commish of those days said it right on TV during a couple of games in 1974 that they waited to start counting blocks and steals until that season directly as a show of respect for Wilt Chamberlain. He said it would be totally unfair to the Legend - his word - to do it any other way.

The announcers said it a lot that year during tv games, right up to playoffs. Hope that helps with those early questions about why they started counting blocks in '74.

Great thread, G.O.A.T!!

[Psileas]

Imo...

1982 - Jack Sikma
1981 - Dennis Johnson
1980 - Dan Roundfield or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1979 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1978 - Bill Walton
1977 - Bobby Jones
1976 - Dave Cowens
1975 - Elvin Hayes
1974 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1973 - Wilt Chamberlain or maybe even Walt Frazier
1972 - Wilt Chamberlain
1971 - Nate Thurmond
1970 - Gus Johnson, Willis Reed or Walt Frazier (hard to say exactly)
1969 - probably still Bill Russell
1968 - Wilt Chamberlain

And back before that everything goes to Bill Russell since the late 1950's, Wilt with a great chance in 1967 or so but, still, that's like 9 more added to Bill Russell, making it 10 overall with the 1969 one, which is just crazy GOAT defensive player.

People need to look at stuff like this and remind themselves that the DPOY wasn't awarded up until 1983... Can't take away from certain player's legacy due to it.

Although the DPOY didn't exist in 1969, I remember having read that Walt Frazier had won a voting for the best defensive player that particular season. Has anyone else caught that? Maybe it was meant that he won more All-D votes than anyone else, although that's not the same thing.

So Bill Russell would have had like 10 DPOY and 7 FMVPs, if they had been handed out back then. Might have helped his GOAT case.

No doubt. However, I'm not sure that, if DPOY's and FMVP's had existed back then, Russell would still have won all his 5 regular MVP's. Of course, players were the ones voting back then, but still, each voter's criteria differ, and I'm guessing Russell's MVP's may partially reflect the fact that those 2 other, more specialized awards, didn't exist back then, so awarding someone the MVP would be pretty much the only way to recognise his superiority throughout the whole season.

[G.O.A.T]

Larry O'Brien the commish of those days said it right on TV during a couple of games in 1974 that they waited to start counting blocks and steals until that season directly as a show of respect for Wilt Chamberlain. He said it would be totally unfair to the Legend - his word - to do it any other way.

The announcers said it a lot that year during tv games, right up to playoffs. Hope that helps with those early questions about why they started counting blocks in '74.

Great thread, G.O.A.T!!

I can't believe I've never heard that. That's interesting. Thanks for the knowledge.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Although the DPOY didn't exist in 1969, I remember having read that Walt Frazier had won a voting for the best defensive player that particular season. Has anyone else caught that? Maybe it was meant that he won more All-D votes than anyone else, although that's not the same thing.



No doubt. However, I'm not sure that, if DPOY's and FMVP's had existed back then, Russell would still have won all his 5 regular MVP's. Of course, players were the ones voting back then, but still, each voter's criteria differ, and I'm guessing Russell's MVP's may partially reflect the fact that those 2 other, more specialized awards, didn't exist back then, so awarding someone the MVP would be pretty much the only way to recognise his superiority throughout the whole season.

I don't know about that one but I'll try to check it out on some articles... Some of my decisions on that list I've posted also come from reading articles and founding out who got more votes for the all-defensive team in a certain year, even though, like you've said, that's not really the same thing.
Anyways, Frazier probably would've walked away with one DPOY in his career, if the award was given back in his day, in similar fashion to guards such as Moncrief, Payton, Cooper or Jordan. And I think DJ would've been another one as he definitely deserved it in 1981.

Yea, I agree with that.

Really interested in this type of stuff...

Anyway, this same thing was done on another board, as like a project... people voted on it I think, didn't take part yet..

But these are the results on there, with a discussion going on for each year:

Where's the rest?

Agree with 1982, 1981, 1979, 1978, 1977 and 1975... Don't disagree with 1980 but I'd probably would've given it to Dan Roundfield instead of Kareem, 1976 I got Cowens and 1974 I got Kareem. Overall, pretty good list, but incomplete.

[ArbitraryWater]

Where's the rest?

Agree with 1982, 1981, 1979, 1978, 1977 and 1975... Don't disagree with 1980 but I'd probably would've given it to Dan Roundfield instead of Kareem, 1976 I got Cowens and 1974 I got Kareem. Overall, pretty good list, but incomplete.

So far they've only voted back to 1974.. The goal is to go back to the Russell days at least.

[LAZERUSS]

Kind of a sidenote, but pretty interesting none-the-less...

68-69.

Wes Unseld won the '69 MVP award, along with winning the ROY(he and Wilt are the only two players in NBA history to accomplish that feat BTW.)

Unseld's play went beyond his statistics, of course, which were very good. He averaged 13.8 ppg, 18.2 rpg, 2.6 apg, and shot .476 from the field. But his biggest strength in the MVP voting came because his Bullets went from a last place 36-46, to a best record in the league, 57-25.

Still, as I mentioned earlier, those Bullet teams before he arrived were actually quit good in terms of talent, but they were always under-achieving. In the 68-69 season, Earl Monroe averaged 26 ppg, Kevin Loughery averaged 23 ppg, and Gus Johnson averaged 18 ppg and 12 rpg. Those were three excellent players, as was Jack Marin, who averaged 16.

BTW, Unseld would get to four finals in his NBA career, and went 1-3 in them, winning the FMVP in '78. Generally he played on successful teams, albeit "only" one that won 60 games (and that team was swept by the 48-34 Warriors in the Finals.)

In any case, the only real criteria in which Unseld had over Wilt in '69, was the fact that his team finished with a slightly better record (57-25 to 55-27.) In their six H2H games, the two teams split the season series, 3-3. In those six contests, and to Unseld's credit, he outrebounded Wilt in four of them. However, Chamberlain wiped the floor with him in one game, outscoring him, 25-4, and outrebounding him by a staggering 38-9 margin. Overall, in those six H2H's, Unseld averaged 11.0 ppg and 20.7 rpg, while Chamberlain averaged 21.5 ppg, 22.2 rpg, and shot a spectacular .626 from the field against him. And, of course, Wilt held a solid edge in their overall seasonal numbers, (20.5 ppg to 13.8 ppg; 21.1 rpg to 18.2 rpg; 4.5 apg to 2.6 apg; and a .583 FG% to Unseld's .476 mark.)


Reed came in second in the MVP voting in '69. His Knicks went 54-28 (just behind Wilt's Lakers, who went 55-27.) However, the Knicks conducted a mid-season trade in which they shipped out Bellamy in return for DeBusschere, and the results were a 36-11 record after the deal.

Reed's numbers were excellent all season (21.1 ppg, 14.5 rpg, 2.3 apg, and on a .521 FG%.) He was also second team all-defense. But after the trade, Reed averaged 24.3 ppg and 15.6 rpg.

However, Wilt's Lakers enjoyed a 5-1 W-L record against those Knicks, including a 2-0 mark when Reed was their center. In their entire seasonal H2H's, covering all six games (again, with Bellamy at center in four of them), Reed averaged 15.0 ppg and 12 rpg, while Wilt averaged 23.7 ppg, 22.3 rpg, and shot an amazing .712 from the field. In their two H2H's when it was Reed vs. Wilt, Reed averaged 20.0 ppg and 9.5 rpg, while Wilt averaged 28.0 ppg, 22.0 rpg, and shot an eye-popping .688 from the floor. Clearly, Wilt dominated Reed in their career H2H's before his knee surgery, and this was yet another example.


And that brings us to Russell. Just how Russell finished ahead of Wilt in the MVP voting that year was a complete mystery. There was virtually no criteria in which he had any edge over Wilt. Russell's Celtics went 48-34 (and 2-3 without him) to Wilt's Lakers' 55-27. In their six regular season H2H's, Wilt's Lakers enjoyed a 4-2 edge, which included that nationally televised beatdown in Boston late in the season by a 108-73 margin.

In their six H2H's, Chamberlain easily outplayed Russell. He outscored Russell, 6-0, which included one game by a 35-5 margin. And he outrebounded Russell, 5-0-1, which included staggering margins of 21-8 and 42-18. Overall, in those six H2H's, Chamberlain outscored Russell by a 16.0 ppg to 6.7 ppg; outrebounded Russell by a 24.0 rpg to 17.0 rpg margin; and Wilt outshot Russell from the field by a .493 to .340 margin. Russell did hold a slim 35-29 assist edge, though.


There you have it. His teams went 3-3, 5-1 (2-0), and 4-2 Unseld's, Reed's, and Russell's. Only Unseld enjoyed an overall better team record (57-25 to Wilt's 55-27,...while Wilt held a 55-27 to 54-28 edge over Reed's, and a 55-27 to 48-34 margin over Russell's.) And Wilt basically clobbered Unseld, Reed, and Russell in their H2H's.

BTW, and again, West missed 21 games for LA, and the Lakers went 12-9 without him. And also again, Baylor missed six games for the Lakers, and they went 5-1 without him.

And yet... Unseld finished first, Reed finished 2nd, Russell finished 4th...and Wilt? Nowhere to be found in the MVP voting.

The fact was, Chamberlain was a defensive beast in 68-69. In a nationally televised game on Christmas Day, he blocked a RECORDED (by SI) 23 shots. Which, of course, is SIX more than the "official" record held by Elmore Smith, of 17 in a game in 1974.

[dankok8]

Here are my DPOY's going back. We're doing a DPOY project on another forum and we're currently on 1972-1973 so we still have a lot to research but I have some thoughts. My list is kind of similar to SHAQisGOAT...

1982 - Jack Sikma
1981 - Dennis Johnson
1980 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1979 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1978 - Bill Walton
1977 - Bobby Jones
1976 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1975 - Elvin Hayes
1974 - Elvin Hayes
1973 - Dave Cowens
1972 - Wilt Chamberlain
1971 - Nate Thurmond
1970 - Willis Reed
1969 - Bill Russell
1968 - Wilt Chamberlain
1967 - Wilt Chamberlain

1957-1966 - Bill Russell

[LAZERUSS]

Here are my DPOY's going back. We're doing a DPOY project on another forum and we're currently on 1972-1973 so we still have a lot to research but I have some thoughts. My list is kind of similar to SHAQisGOAT...

1982 - Jack Sikma
1981 - Dennis Johnson
1980 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1979 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1978 - Bill Walton
1977 - Bobby Jones
1976 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1975 - Elvin Hayes
1974 - Elvin Hayes
1973 - Dave Cowens
1972 - Wilt Chamberlain
1971 - Nate Thurmond
1970 - Willis Reed
1969 - Bill Russell
1968 - Wilt Chamberlain
1967 - Wilt Chamberlain

1957-1966 - Bill Russell

Chamberlain's one-on-one play against the best centers of each season, was actually better in his 72-73 season, than his 71-72 season. He badly outplayed Lanier in their '73 H2H's, and he reduced Kareem to a .450 shooter in their six regular season H2H's. Only Dave Cowens gave him fits among the top tier centers. Interesting too, that a PEAK Kareem just annihilated both Cowens and Lanier, but by the mid-70's they were nearly matching him.

BTW, Chamberlain was voted First Team All-Defense in 72-73...and ahead of Cowens, Thurmond, Reed, Kareem, Unseld, and Hayes.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Here are my DPOY's going back. We're doing a DPOY project on another forum and we're currently on 1972-1973 so we still have a lot to research but I have some thoughts. My list is kind of similar to SHAQisGOAT...

1982 - Jack Sikma
1981 - Dennis Johnson
1980 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - either Roundfield or Jabbar
1979 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
1978 - Bill Walton
1977 - Bobby Jones
1976 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Cowens
1975 - Elvin Hayes
1974 - Elvin Hayes - Kareem
1973 - Dave Cowens - probably Wilt or even Frazier
1972 - Wilt Chamberlain
1971 - Nate Thurmond
1970 - Willis Reed - either Gus Johnson, Reed or Frazier
1969 - Bill Russell
1968 - Wilt Chamberlain
1967 - Wilt Chamberlain

1957-1966 - Bill Russell

Great list, we only disagree on a few that I've bolded in your post.

[ArbitraryWater]

The board I was talking about lol

[dankok8]

Chamberlain's one-on-one play against the best centers of each season, was actually better in his 72-73 season, than his 71-72 season. He badly outplayed Lanier in their '73 H2H's, and he reduced Kareem to a .450 shooter in their six regular season H2H's. Only Dave Cowens gave him fits among the top tier centers. Interesting too, that a PEAK Kareem just annihilated both Cowens and Lanier, but by the mid-70's they were nearly matching him.

BTW, Chamberlain was voted First Team All-Defense in 72-73...and ahead of Cowens, Thurmond, Reed, Kareem, Unseld, and Hayes.

While Kareem did dominate Wilt more individually in 1971-1972, there is little doubt that Wilt was more impactful defensively in that season. More DWS in less minutes. And he fueled those Laker fast breaks with his outlet passing as well as anyone ever ever did. Plus in 1972-1973, both Cowens and Haywood gave him fits. Spencer Haywood averaged 28.8/14.8... Cowens 31.3/19.8. In his last season, despite winning the rebounding the title, Wilt got killed on the glass by the 3 best rebounders in the game other than himself.

21.6 to 16.6 by Thurmond (7-0 in individual games)
18.0 to 16.0 by Kareem (5-1 in individual games)
19.8 to 14.5 by Cowens (3-1 in individual games)

15-2... Ouch!

Cowens' Celtics had the best defense in the league. Dave won the MVP over Kareem based on his defensive impact.

[LAZERUSS]

As yet another side-note...

In Wilt's LAST season (72-73), he averaged 5.4 bpg (thanks to ThaRegul8r's research.)

As La Frescobaldi mentioned previously, the NBA did not "officially" begin recording blocked shots until the very next season. Elmore Smith ran away with the bpg mark in that 73-74 season, at 4.9 bpg. Kareem was a distant second at 3.5 bpg, and an injury-riddled Thurmond was at 2.9 (would have been enough for fifth had he had enough games to qualify.) Thurmond was considered the third best shot-blocker of the 60's (behind Wilt and Russell.)

Chamberlain's mark, achieved at age 36, would be good enough for second all-time and just behind a peak Eaton's mark of 5.6 bpg, which was set just 12 years after Wilt retired.

Clearly, a PRIME Chamberlain was easily at 8+ bpg, and Harvey Pollack had him with SEASONS of 10+ bpg.

[LAZERUSS]

While Kareem did dominate Wilt more individually in 1971-1972, there is little doubt that Wilt was more impactful defensively in that season. More DWS in less minutes. Plus in 1972-1973, both Cowens and Haywood gave him fits. Spencer Haywood averaged 28.8/14.8... Cowens 31.3/19.8. In his last season, despite winning the rebounding the title, Wilt got killed on the glass by the 3 best rebounders in the game other than himself.

21.6 to 16.6 by Thurmond (7-0 in individual games)
18.0 to 16.0 by Kareem (5-1 in individual games)
19.8 to 14.5 by Cowens (3-1 in individual games)

15-2... Ouch!

Cowens' Celtics had the best defense in the league. Dave won the MVP over Kareem based on his defensive impact.

Well, and as always, he SLAUGHTERED Nate on the glass in their five post-season games, 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg. As well as outshooting him from the field by a .611 to .373 margin. Keep in mind that Nate finished second in rpg during the regular season (and considerably behind Chamberlain.)