Kobe Bryant vs. John Havlicek

[TrueDiesel3]

Hondo is constantly disregarded in lists, like greatest small forwards ever and greatest players ever....To me, he's honestly the 3rd greatest small forward of all-time only behind Larry Bird and Dr. J. He is above Pippen, Baylor, Barry, Worthy, Nique, etc.. However, the answer to this thread is still Kobe.

Hondo having zero NBA MVPs in his career somewhat hurts him. If he did have an NBA MVP at one point, I think most people would consider him greater than Erving.

[ginobli2311]

cheer picker lol

il play this game even though havlicek isnt on anyones top 10 list anywhere any time


Havlicek - 4 1st team all nba's
Kobe - 8 1st team all nba's

that right there means kobe is double havlicek in peak play

Havlicek - 0 mvps
Kobe - 1 mvp

the amount of mvps doesnt matter, but try being top 10 without one

Havlicek - 5 1st team defense's
Kobe - 8 1st team defense's

3 more and will probably add to that


again...............................need i remind people kobes only 31 and his storey isnt even finished yet he blows most legends out of the water with his career achivements lol


Havlicek - 1 finals mvp
Kobe - 2 finals mvps

noticed the OP got that wrong too, he has an asterisk, guess its his way of telling us its a lie


Havlicek - 20ppg
Kobe - 25ppg

you have to atleast average 25ppg to be considered a legendary go to guy



Havlicek - 43%fg's
Kobe - 45% fg's

JESUS he cant even beat kobe in a useless non true shooting statistic, which is the basis of 100% of kobe bashing threads






oh yeah and ( cough ) BILL.............RUSSELL ? anyone? anyone lol comon



put kobe with bill and he doesnt stop at 11

this is why most kobe homers are just morons. oh yea and (cough) Shaq? anyone lol comon


put wade with shaq for 8 years and he doesnt stop at 3.

see how that works both ways dude?

[ginobli2311]

kobe is a better player than havlicek. its pretty obvious if you look at how they played the game and what each player was capable of and which player separated himself from the competition more often.

but lol at a kobe homer's......you want to used context to explain away havlicek's great career in terms of titles and playoff success. you can't have it both ways.

last time i checked havlicek has more titles than kobe and he was either the best or 2nd best player on almost all those title teams.

this is exactly why team success is such a flawed way to rank players. its beyond idiotic to put so much weight into team success. its a factor.....but not the most important one.........this thread makes it even more obvious

[Yung D-Will]

[/B]

this is why most kobe homers are just morons. oh yea and (cough) Shaq? anyone lol comon


put wade with shaq for 8 years and he doesnt stop at 3.

see how that works both ways dude?

Love the speculation yet again.

Hey put Adam Morrison on the 76ers an they have 25 championships

[ginobli2311]

Love the speculation yet again.

Hey put Adam Morrison on the 76ers an they have 25 championships

i was responding to the speculation above moron. stop trolling and try to add to the discussion. using your brain to bring logic, context, and speculation is what a debate is all about. you don't have a brain....so you can't understand this concept.

if we are not creating context or speculation then:

havlicek is better than kobe.....end of story

8 titles in 16 years is better than 5 titles in 14 years. no context or speculation = fine by me.

move over kobe.....havlicek is now top ten all time

[Yung D-Will]

stop trolling and try to add to the discussion. using your brain to bring logic, context, and speculation is what a debate is all about. you don't have a brain....so you can't understand this concept.

if we are not creating context or speculation then:

havlicek is better than kobe.....end of story

8 titles in 16 years is better than 5 titles in 14 years. no context or speculation = fine by me.

move over kobe.....havlicek is now top ten all time

Lmao

[ginobli2311]

Yung D-Will
This message is hidden because Yung D-Will is on your ignore list.


you had your chance to participate in a debate about basketball. you chose to try to add nothing. sorry....don't care what you say. you either don't have a brain or you choose not to use it.

[Se]

cheer picker lol

il play this game even though havlicek isnt on anyones top 10 list anywhere any time


Havlicek - 4 1st team all nba's
Kobe - 8 1st team all nba's

that right there means kobe is double havlicek in peak play

Havlicek - 0 mvps
Kobe - 1 mvp

the amount of mvps doesnt matter, but try being top 10 without one

Havlicek - 5 1st team defense's
Kobe - 8 1st team defense's

3 more and will probably add to that


again...............................need i remind people kobes only 31 and his storey isnt even finished yet he blows most legends out of the water with his career achivements lol


Havlicek - 1 finals mvp
Kobe - 2 finals mvps

noticed the OP got that wrong too, he has an asterisk, guess its his way of telling us its a lie


Havlicek - 20ppg
Kobe - 25ppg

you have to atleast average 25ppg to be considered a legendary go to guy



Havlicek - 43%fg's
Kobe - 45% fg's

JESUS he cant even beat kobe in a useless non true shooting statistic, which is the basis of 100% of kobe bashing threads






oh yeah and ( cough ) BILL.............RUSSELL ? anyone? anyone lol comon



put kobe with bill and he doesnt stop at 11

Good post.

I'm a die-hard Celtics fan, and I wouldn't argue for Havlicek over Bryant.

Kobe is a top 12 player of all-time, while Hondo is top 25

[Rekindled]

cheer picker lol

il play this game even though havlicek isnt on anyones top 10 list anywhere any time


Havlicek - 4 1st team all nba's
Kobe - 8 1st team all nba's

that right there means kobe is double havlicek in peak play

Havlicek - 0 mvps
Kobe - 1 mvp

the amount of mvps doesnt matter, but try being top 10 without one

Havlicek - 5 1st team defense's
Kobe - 8 1st team defense's

3 more and will probably add to that


again...............................need i remind people kobes only 31 and his storey isnt even finished yet he blows most legends out of the water with his career achivements lol


Havlicek - 1 finals mvp
Kobe - 2 finals mvps

noticed the OP got that wrong too, he has an asterisk, guess its his way of telling us its a lie


Havlicek - 20ppg
Kobe - 25ppg

you have to atleast average 25ppg to be considered a legendary go to guy



Havlicek - 43%fg's
Kobe - 45% fg's

JESUS he cant even beat kobe in a useless non true shooting statistic, which is the basis of 100% of kobe bashing threads






oh yeah and ( cough ) BILL.............RUSSELL ? anyone? anyone lol comon



put kobe with bill and he doesnt stop at 11

so by your logic, Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing , Drob , Bird etc. were all not go to guys.

[Doctor K]

wow, when I read the thread title, I thought:

"Another Kobe hater thread, this is a diss to Kobe."

But actually, Hondo did some shit and it is a lot closer than people realize. If Hondo didn't play in the lost era (70s) we might remember him more fondly.

My question is, if ISH was around then, would there be endless "Where does Hondo rank all time?" "Is Hondo in your top five" etc...threads?

Having a lot of athletes (read: blacks) plying their trade in the ABA at the time does take a bit of luster off Havlicek's diamond and thus:

Kobe > Hondo.

Havlicek was one of the best players in the late 60s as well. He actually had a big rivalry with Jerry West, they were like on the same level. Had some classic battles in the NBA Finals.

[Doctor K]

I'm just saying. Kobe wins a title, as the main guy, and now he is Top 10. And that's his main argument. 5 Titles + 2 as the Main Guy = Top 10.

However, Havlicek has more titles, and more as the main guy, yet he is not even close?
He has the Individual Allocades (10+ All-NBA/All-Star) and Longevity to back himself up too. He was a good defender, scorer, passer, rebounder, and everything.

[ginobli2311]

I'm just saying. Kobe wins a title, as the main guy, and now he is Top 10. And that's his main argument. 5 Titles + 2 as the Main Guy = Top 10.

However, Havlicek has more titles, and more as the main guy, yet he is not even close?
He has the Individual Allocades (10+ All-NBA/All-Star) and Longevity to back himself up too. He was a good defender, scorer, passer, rebounder, and everything.

you are dead on. its simple though. kobe was just a little bit better of an overall player. going to titles as the man or total rings is not a good way to debate players. this thread is perfect evidence of this.

you have done a great job of showing that hondo still remains quite under-rated all time and that he had a truly great career. but most importantly....hondo was a great player that played the game as well as the truly elite of all time.

[FCN]

Havlicek all day.

Kobe is not a top ten all-time.

[Lebron23]

Hondo

[Heavincent]

Hondo

Why the **** did you bump this just to say something retarded like that