Derrick Rose looked like poor man's prime Allen Iverson in game 1.

[Papaya Petee]

Marbury at 21 averaged 21.3 ppg 8.9 apg
We forget how talented Marbury was when he was actually good.

How well did he do in playoffs at ages 20-21? Appreciate what Rose is doing at such a young age rather then critizing him especially after having a great game.

[jrong]

I made this point in the game-thread, but as talented as Rose is individually, I'm not sold on him 100% yet because I'm not sure how much of an impact the way he plays has on winning at this point. Of course, I don't expect him to knock out the Cavs, but I also can't believe that during CHI's recent long, long losing streak that, while putting up great individual numbers, he still couldn't get a single game for his team with Noah out of the lineup.

[STATDunksOn]

I made this point in the game-thread, but as talented as Rose is individually, I'm not sold on him 100% yet because I'm not sure how much of an impact the way he plays has on winning at this point. Of course, I don't expect him to knock out the Cavs, but I also can't believe that during CHI's recent long, long losing streak that he couldn't get his team a single game with Noah out of the lineup.

I'm sure Beasley is better.......dumbass.

[airchibundo507]

I made this point in the game-thread, but as talented as Rose is individually, I'm not sold on him 100% yet because I'm not sure how much of an impact the way he plays has on winning at this point. Of course, I don't expect him to knock out the Cavs, but I also can't believe that during CHI's recent long, long losing streak that, while putting up great individual numbers, he still couldn't get a single game for his team with Noah out of the lineup.

The team is already thin as it is and Noah is an all-star. Are you seriously blaming their losing on Rose?

[ZenMaster]

Marbury at 21 averaged 21.3 ppg 8.9 apg
We forget how talented Marbury was when he was actually good.

What have you done for me lately..........

[liquidrage]

How well did he do in playoffs at ages 20-21? Appreciate what Rose is doing at such a young age rather then critizing him especially after having a great game.

21-8-4 with 3 TO's was his playoff avg at age 20.


And no, I criticize him. I think the AI comparisons are close. But I like the Marbury one better. We'll see if Rose is ever able to lead a great team. He's the type of PG that's hard to build around because he dominates the ball. Guys like CP, DWill and Nash are elite PG's. Rose is an elite player playing out of position. He's a 2 in a PG body. He has the handles but not the mentality or the vision to be a PG. And I think it's very hard for a team to build a contender around that. I've seen plenty of Rose this year, and while impressive I would take about 8 or 9 PG's in this league over him because he's just one player on the court and one I don't think is conducive to winning ball games.

[jrong]

I'm sure Beasley is better.......dumbass.

Ok, first, when you use the ROTF emoticon to laugh at your own brainless, juvenile insult, it's pretty weak.

Second, what does Beasley have to do with this? Rose is an all-star, the undisputed best player in his class, and a #1 on his team. Beasley right now isn't in the top five from his draft year.

[xOShakespearexO]

How well did he do in playoffs at ages 20-21? Appreciate what Rose is doing at such a young age rather then critizing him especially after having a great game.

Mabury entered the league at 19 years old. Compared to Rose at 20 years old.
As we know Marbury was never a winner in terms of the W/L, but he was statistical up there and his talent was undeniable. 6'2 very gifted athlete. Maybe not in the air as Rose, he could get up though. He had the speed, agility, lateral quickness though.

At 19 in a sweep loss 0-3. Marbury averaged 21.3 ppg 7.7 apg that series. The only knock on Marbury that you can't give to Rose is Rose shoots such a high FG% compared to marbury. However Marbury got to the line more even at Rose's age, and was a better 3 point shooter.

If you look past Marbury being a cancer, the comparison really is almost identical, but Marbury was by far a better passer. Where Rose was a little more efficient.

[airchibundo507]

21-8-4 with 3 TO's was his playoff avg at age 20.


And no, I criticize him. I think the AI comparisons are close. But I like the Marbury one better. We'll see if Rose is ever able to lead a great team. He's the type of PG that's hard to build around because he dominates the ball. Guys like CP, DWill and Nash are elite PG's. Rose is an elite player playing out of position. He's a 2 in a PG body. He has the handles but not the mentality or the vision to be a PG. And I think it's very hard for a team to build a contender around that. I've seen plenty of Rose this year, and while impressive I would take about 8 or 9 PG's in this league over him because he's just one player on the court and one I don't think is conducive to winning ball games.

Rose doesn't have half the finishers that CP, DWill, and Nash do.

Rose plays on one of the worst outside shooting teams in the league, which of course makes it more difficult for him to penetrate and draw in the defense. Those three "elite" point guards get a ton of assists off of West, Boozer, and Amare. Where is the elite scoring big on the Bulls?

[STATDunksOn]

Ok, first, when you use the ROTF emoticon to laugh at your own brainless, juvenile insult, it's pretty weak.

Second, what does Beasley have to do with this? Rose is an all-star, the undisputed best player in his class, and a #1 on his team. Beasley right now isn't in the top five from his draft year.

You are a Heat homer, I'm sure you were dismissing Rose because of that.

[jrong]

The team is already thin as it is and Noah is an all-star. Are you seriously blaming their losing on Rose?

No, not at all. Basically, what I'm questioning is whether he's destined for stardom or superstardom. Right now, he's a star, but not a superstar.

[Papaya Petee]

Mabury entered the league at 19 years old. Compared to Rose at 20 years old.
As we know Marbury was never a winner in terms of the W/L, but he was statistical up there and his talent was undeniable. 6'2 very gifted athlete. Maybe not in the air as Rose, he could get up though. He had the speed, agility, lateral quickness though.

At 19 in a sweep loss 0-3. Marbury averaged 21.3 ppg 7.7 apg that series. The only knock on Marbury that you can't give to Rose is Rose shoots such a high FG% compared to marbury. However Marbury got to the line more even at Rose's age, and was a better 3 point shooter.

If you look past Marbury being a cancer, the comparison really is almost identical.

No, the comparison is not identical. Derrick Rose is only 21 years old so you have no way to call him a cancer. Also, he is the only all-star player Chicago Bulls had in the last 2 years, yet he lead them to the playoffs both years and didn't have a losing record any of the two years. The Bulls were on the edge of not making the playoffs, when Rose stepped it up and averaged 26 ppg in the month of April and they had a very good last 7-10 games. Also the one playoff series he had he lost 3-4 to the defending champions in the Boston Celtics who won 60+ games that year. With the offensive talent Rose plays with every day, I am so shocked he even got this far in his first two years.


If thats calling Derrick Rose a cancer, I really don't know what to tell you.

[Lebron23]

He looked like a rich man's prime Steve Francis.

[airchibundo507]

No, not at all. Basically, what I'm questioning is whether he's destined for stardom or superstardom. Right now, he's a star, but not a superstar.

He's not even close to a superstar. That's an elite group. Maybe he can transcend the gap in 2-3 years, but averaging 21/6 on a .500 team isn't anything special.

[jrong]

You are a Heat homer, I'm sure you were dismissing Rose because of that.

I'm not dismissing Rose at all. I'm simply calling into question his leadership ability at this stage. There's absolutely no shame in him not being able to carry a team as new as he is into his career (but, there are superstars that have done it, though-- so, it's just a question what level of star Rose will eventually turn into).