Myth: Derrick Rose is an elite POINT guard ( He is an undersized SG like Wade)

[Poodle]

I also disagree with alot of your Mayo comments, but I'd rather not argue against someone with the players name.

unless you've watched the grizzlies kind of a lot this year i don't think most people realize how unselfish and intelligent of a player Mayo is. don't judge him by his rookie year. i've watched the grizzlies kind of a lot early on and Mayo is as unselfish and intelligent a player with the game to do a lot more than i've seen play. i really respect players that can do a lot more and get more glory, but hold themselves back doing whats best to win for the team, and i'd swear that personifies Mayo this year.

thing is i thought he was a no conscience chucker from stats and general stuff i read last year. i rarely, if ever watched them last year tho.

[Kellogs4toniee]

you guys can't keep using that excuse. these are NBA players and hinrich, deng, b.miller, noah, etc. aren't nearly as bad as your pretending. they are easily competent teammates.

problem is rose will take on 3 people and still not look to dish. he's just not the PG distributor most people would like to see in their PG, more than SG chucker/driver.

Noah (Warrick in this case because Noah your hustler and rebounder has been injured) / Gibson / Miller are not offensive bigs. You can not dish the ball to them and have them produce for you effectively. As a result, you have to rely on your swingman, aka your two guard and small forward, and have Rose push the ball. Now let us analyze this more thoroughly.

Your two guard, the one who the PG is suppose to pass to and let him score, is Kirk Hinrich. He is shooting less than 40% this season, averaging 10.5 points in 33 minutes of play. Really? As a coach do you really want the ball in his hands?

Your small forward is playing wonderfully, but does not have the physical presence to command double teams or make opponent teams create game-plans based on his play. No knock on Deng, I love him as a Bulls fan, but he is averaging less than 3 trips to the line a game.

In the system right now, Derrick Rose simply does not have the personnel to be an elite pass-first point guard. However, what I see is a player who has been a PG all his life learn to adjust to what the coaches require from him, which is to shoot more and be more dominant / aggresive.

He has done all that and improved his jumper dramatically. All those interviews during the early season where he admits he has been injured, and he felt bad for it affecting his team so he promised he was in the gym all day practicing to make his jumper better? The BOY wasn't lying He's shooting 48% this season and over 50% the last 2 months.

He has shown maturity and an ability to be coached that any team would LOVE to have in this league.

[Poodle]

1. None of them are catch and shoot players or pick and roll players. And for the hundreth time we run an Iso offense. Which = not a lot of assists.
2. Prove that he doesn't pass it up.
3. Most of Derricks drives are broken plays because we run around 3 plays.
4. He is nothing close to a chucker. He's a guy that would much rather pass first. Since you claim to watch the Bulls so much, you would realize how passive he was earlier in the year. Thid was also when everyone started making threads on how he sucks/doesn't have the will to score. Now that he scores he's a shooting guard/chucker.

1. B. Miller IS a catch and shoot player. Noah can hit a short J occasionally even tho he barely takes any shots. hinrich has range so does deng. running ISO is fine but driving against help isn't which rose does often and doesn't have the vision to make the smart play consistently.

2. lol you prove he does pass it up... what does he average assists-wise? how often does he geet 10 assist games? for how much he tends to dominate the ball its fairly obvious if you watch the bulls play that rose isn't anything close to a pass first PG so this is a really dumb retort. i don't really want to get into arguing with a homer since you guys are unreasonable about rose.

3. some are broken where he'll just say screw it and take it himself, but not most. if anything most of rose's plays that i've seen are ISO's like you said.

4. he was hurt earlier in the year and played more passive. he does shoot a lot, but i probably exaggerated when i said chucker since a real chucker has little conscience where as rose isn't nearly that bad. but i swear to God his decision making to drive sometimes, or shoot it can be so retarded, which goes back to his decision making as a PG.

whats funny is i actually cheer for rose, but its so frustrating watching him regularly compared to some of the more 'intelligent' players around the league(like Mayo is this year).

this is a good thread actually, i'm surprised to see someone make a bold thread like this about someone a lot of people here bandwagon.

[Poodle]

Noah (Warrick in this case because Noah your hustler and rebounder has been injured) / Gibson / Miller are not offensive bigs. You can not dish the ball to them and have them produce for you effectively. As a result, you have to rely on your swingman, aka your two guard and small forward, and have Rose push the ball. Now let us analyze this more thoroughly.

Your two guard, the one who the PG is suppose to pass to and let him score, is Kirk Hinrich. He is shooting less than 40% this season, averaging 10.5 points in 33 minutes of play. Really? As a coach do you really want the ball in his hands?

Your small forward is playing wonderfully, but does not have the physical presence to command double teams or make opponent teams create game-plans based on his play. No knock on Deng, I love him as a Bulls fan, but he is averaging less than 3 trips to the line a game.

In the system right now, Derrick Rose simply does not have the personnel to be an elite pass-first point guard. However, what I see is a player who has been a PG all his life learn to adjust to what the coaches require from him, which is to shoot more and be more dominant / aggresive.

He has done all that and improved his jumper dramatically. All those interviews during the early season where he admits he has been injured, and he felt bad for it affecting his team so he promised he was in the gym all day practicing to make his jumper better? The BOY wasn't lying He's shooting 48% this season and over 50% the last 2 months.

He has shown maturity and an ability to be coached that any team would LOVE to have in this league.

where i disagree with you is that he can't do anything else than what he does because everyone around him is so bad. its obvious sometimes to everyone rose is going to take it himself, even the defense, who at times collapse on him and he still blinders the basket and either throws up a prayer, luckily gets a call, or make it. rarely dishes to the open man. most of the top PG's around the league in those situations will dish to the open man, and rose doesn't do that anywhere close to them.

honestly you guys are scapegoating rose's weaknesses on his teammates when its not nearly that black and white. those teammates CAN hit shots, can make layups, can dunk finish, but rose doesn't give them those opportunities anywhere close to the other top PG's around the league. he's just way less of a great PG imo, more than a great PG scorer with a top notch mid range and drive game.

yeah he's young but people need to stop looking for excuses than acknowledge what he's weak at now.

[brooks_thompson]

ya think you got what it takes ?!

[Go Getter]

1. B. Miller IS a catch and shoot player. Noah can hit a short J occasionally even tho he barely takes any shots. hinrich has range so does deng. running ISO is fine but driving against help isn't which rose does often and doesn't have the vision to make the smart play consistently.

2. lol you prove he does pass it up... what does he average assists-wise? how often does he geet 10 assist games? for how much he tends to dominate the ball its fairly obvious if you watch the bulls play that rose isn't anything close to a pass first PG so this is a really dumb retort. i don't really want to get into arguing with a homer since you guys are unreasonable about rose.

3. some are broken where he'll just say screw it and take it himself, but not most. if anything most of rose's plays that i've seen are ISO's like you said.

4. he was hurt earlier in the year and played more passive. he does shoot a lot, but i probably exaggerated when i said chucker since a real chucker has little conscience where as rose isn't nearly that bad. but i swear to God his decision making to drive sometimes, or shoot it can be so retarded, which goes back to his decision making as a PG.

whats funny is i actually cheer for rose, but its so frustrating watching him regularly compared to some of the more 'intelligent' players around the league(like Mayo is this year).

this is a good thread actually, i'm surprised to see someone make a bold thread like this about someone a lot of people here bandwagon.

Brad Miller is a catch and shoot player?

Mayo is one if the more intelligent players in the league?

wHER do you guys come up with this stuff?

[Go Getter]

honestly you guys are scapegoating rose's weaknesses on his teammates when its not nearly that black and white. those teammates CAN hit shots, can make layups, can dunk finish, but rose doesn't give them those opportunities anywhere close to the other top PG's around the league. he's just way less of a great PG imo, more than a great PG scorer with a top notch mid range and drive game.

yeah he's young but people need to stop looking for excuses than acknowledge what he's weak at now.

Numbers don't lie the only two players that are shooting the ball well on the bulls are Rose and Deng. Kirk CAN shoot but he's really stinking it up this year from the floor.

Rose doesn't give the ball up because the org has asked him to be more selfish....the team WANTS him to 'ignore' teammates and shoot why can't people get that through their thick skulls?

[Pharcyde]

1. B. Miller IS a catch and shoot player. Noah can hit a short J occasionally even tho he barely takes any shots. hinrich has range so does deng. running ISO is fine but driving against help isn't which rose does often and doesn't have the vision to make the smart play consistently.

Miller is not a catch and shoot player. He's terrible at it.
Why did you even try and mention Noah?
Kirk has range, good for him. He doesn't catch and shoot so you didn't make a point.
Deng is a good midrange shooter, and we use him in our Iso plays. He rarely spots up for a catch and shoot.

2. lol you prove he does pass it up... what does he average assists-wise? how often does he geet 10 assist games? for how much he tends to dominate the ball its fairly obvious if you watch the bulls play that rose isn't anything close to a pass first PG so this is a really dumb retort. i don't really want to get into arguing with a homer since you guys are unreasonable about rose.

Again, what does this prove? The Bulls don't run an offense. We run Isolation plays and the high screen which forces the ball out of Roses hand. Hell, that's really the only play involving Rose. If you watched Bulls games you would see that. But you don't so it's not a surprise.

3. some are broken where he'll just say screw it and take it himself, but not most. if anything most of rose's plays that i've seen are ISO's like you said.

No, a lot are broken. Since we don't run plays for him.

whats funny is i actually cheer for rose, but its so frustrating watching him regularly compared to some of the more 'intelligent' players around the league(like Mayo is this year).

You say this a lot, but it's not even close to being true. He's not even close to being frustrating. You know who is? Kirk Hinrich clanking corner 3 after corner 3 and Brad Miller jacking up shots.

[Poodle]

Brad Miller is a catch and shoot player?

Mayo is one if the more intelligent players in the league?

wHER do you guys come up with this stuff?

watching games. you?


you do realize brad took a lot of jumpers more than anything post with sacramento? the bulls even run the same plays to get brad those mid range shots....

i bet you haven't watched one grizzlies game this year to know what you're talking about with mayo...

and yeah i'll give you guys the point that hinrich and miller haven't been able to consistently nail their shots this year, but they still have some games where they are hitting...and are both normally throughout their careers pretty good shooters.

[Pharcyde]

luckily gets a call

This never happens. Rose gets clobbered and still doesn't get calls.

[Kellogs4toniee]

whats funny is i actually cheer for rose, but its so frustrating watching him regularly compared to some of the more 'intelligent' players around the league(like Mayo is this year).

this is a good thread actually, i'm surprised to see someone make a bold thread like this about someone a lot of people here bandwagon.

People have already stated how ridiculous your previous statements are regarding how well the other Bulls players are suppose to play, but do you really think O.J Mayo is playing smarter? He has practically his entire team his rookie season to develop more team chemistry, yet it seems the only player that has not improved statistically from last year on the Grizzlies out of the core of Gay, Gasol and Conley is Mayo He is playing 39 minutes a game this year you know that right?

[Kellogs4toniee]

watching games. you?


you do realize brad took a lot of jumpers more than anything post with sacramento? the bulls even run the same plays to get brad those mid range shots....

i bet you haven't watched one grizzlies game this year to know what you're talking about with mayo...

and yeah i'll give you guys the point that hinrich and miller haven't been able to consistently nail their shots this year, but they still have some games where they are hitting...and are both normally throughout their careers pretty good shooters.

Except not this year (below 40% for a 2 -guard hello do you read our comments?), hence the coach and organization needing Rose to be more aggressive and take more shots.

[Poodle]

Miller is not a catch and shoot player. He's terrible at it.
Why did you even try and mention Noah?
Kirk has range, good for him. He doesn't catch and shoot so you didn't make a point.
Deng is a good midrange shooter, and we use him in our Iso plays. He rarely spots up for a catch and shoot.


Again, what does this prove? The Bulls don't run an offense. We run Isolation plays and the high screen which forces the ball out of Roses hand. Hell, that's really the only play involving Rose. If you watched Bulls games you would see that. But you don't so it's not a surprise.


No, a lot are broken. Since we don't run plays for him.



You say this a lot, but it's not even close to being true. He's not even close to being frustrating. You know who is? Kirk Hinrich clanking corner 3 after corner 3 and Brad Miller jacking up shots.

you're just extremely bias where you aren't reasonable, and yes i've watched plenty of bulls game this year, going all the way back to when they had crawford, curry, and chandler. i can at least give insight relative to other players/teams around the league that i've also watched, where as your whole homer basis of analysis is based on just the bulls, but this is why Knicks fans will be dumb enough to consider Lee a 3rd or 4th option. only homers are that dumb...

if you don't think miller is a catch and shoot player then you have no clue wtf you're talking about. the bulls even run plays for him to get that mid range shot. he's done it throughout his whole career

i mentioned noah because noah CAN bury that short J. you're the only acting like nobody but rose can make a basket which is just blind homer 'my favorite player can do no wrong' typical ish ignorance.

are you serious? kirk spots up quite often. if anything kirk catches and shoots more than dribble creates himself and shoots. what you're saying is so retarded acting like rose can't pass to these guys when he's drawing 2 or 3 players. SOMEONES open...

seriously do you even watch your own team play? i can't believe you're saying half this stuff. deng does position himself for catch and shoots often...

its hilarious you're such a bulls homer you can't even admit one criticism about your favorite player and making up ALL of these BS excuses. Even then you're either watching a completely different team than i am to say what you just said, or just have a very retarded ability to analyze what you watch. And you have the nerve to act like i don't watch the bulls to know? lmao this is exactly why i don't like trying to talk sense with homers, most of you are morons about your players rarely do i run across one of you that can admit a criticism or be somewhat objective.

[Kellogs4toniee]

you're just extremely bias where you aren't reasonable, and yes i've watched plenty of bulls game this year, going all the way back to when they had crawford, curry, and chandler. i can at least give insight relative to other players/teams around the league that i've also watched, where as your whole homer basis of analysis is based on just the bulls, but this is why Knicks fans will be dumb enough to consider Lee a 3rd or 4th option. only homers are that dumb...

if you don't think miller is a catch and shoot player then you have no clue wtf you're talking about. the bulls even run plays for him to get that mid range shot. he's done it throughout his whole career

i mentioned noah because noah CAN bury that short J. you're the only acting like nobody but rose can make a basket which is just blind homer 'my favorite player can do no wrong' typical ish ignorance.

are you serious? kirk spots up quite often. if anything kirk catches and shoots more than dribble creates himself and shoots. what you're saying is so retarded acting like rose can't pass to these guys when he's drawing 2 or 3 players. SOMEONES open...

seriously do you even watch your own team play? i can't believe you're saying half this stuff. deng does position himself for catch and shoots often...

its hilarious you're such a bulls homer you can't even admit one criticism about your favorite player and making up ALL of these BS excuses. Even then you're either watching a completely different team than i am to say what you just said, or just have a very retarded ability to analyze what you watch. And you have the nerve to act like i don't watch the bulls to know? lmao this is exactly why i don't like trying to talk sense with homers, most of you are morons about your players rarely do i run across one of you that can admit a criticism or be somewhat objective.

I live in Chicago. I have WGN. They televise pretty much every Bulls game. Hinrich does not catch and shoot more than he dribble shoots or shoots off the dribble. What are you smoking? Stop acting like you know the Bulls. I really do not see any credible argument at all to justify why one would think O.J Mayo is playing smarter than Rose this year.

[Poodle]

This never happens. Rose gets clobbered and still doesn't get calls.

UGHHH if anything rose gets calls that were clean blocks. it just looks bad because he'll run into 3 players while he throws the ball up, but i see him get those type calls more often than not.

he doesn't get kobe type of touch calls, but theres definitely very little you should be complaining about there, especially when rose initiates a lot of the contact.