The GOAT List: 100 Greatest Players in Basketball History

[Niquesports]

Hey NiqueSports, don't tell me you are going to ignore the post that kills your best (and worst) argument. Come on.

If you don't agree with all of the above, please don't throw that Top 50 and HOF BS at me.

I agree with all of the above

[GP_20]

I will answer that when you say I am right or wrong that TIny has something in common with Magic and Jordan that KJ doesnt
CAN WE SAY TOP 50

Yeah he does. So does James Worthy and not McAdoo and Dominique Wilkins.

Does that mean James Worthy > McAdoo and Wikins? Yes?

[Niquesports]

Yeah he does. So does James Worthy and not McAdoo and Dominique Wilkins.

Does that mean James Worthy > McAdoo and Wikins? Yes?

Yes

[GP_20]

I agree with all of the above

Thank You Debate Over



Pointless, in arguing with someone who looks only at awards, and thinks Larry Hughes was All-D 1st material, Duncan never deserved DPOY, Nash is a 2 Time MVP and deserved both, James Worthy > Wilkins or McAdoo ever were, Camby was a deserving DPOY, KC Jones = HOF, but not DJ, Kobe is on par with MJ on defense (All-D teams), etc.


Thanks, you have done the job for me, you have proven that you are an idiot.



I don't need to say anything else, everyone can just read and laugh at you.

[L.Kizzle]

I'm pretty curious where Reggie Miller ends up on your list with Ray Allen in the 90's. Whenever I read some of these lists, I find that (in my opinion), Reggie is overrated and that his longevity is a good reason why he's placed higher than he should be.

It's actually his playoff heroics as to why he's placed so highly on list.

Only 3 All-NBA teams and 5 All-Star selections (but some of the greatest moments in NBA Playoff history, EVER!)

[GP_20]

It's actually his playoff heroics as to why he's placed so highly on list.

Only 3 All-NBA teams and 5 All-Star selections (but some of the greatest moments in NBA Playoff history, EVER!)

Kizzle you have any arguments for Tiny? I've completely Annihilated NiqueSports.


Who do you have Kizzle?

Tiny Archibald vs. Kevin Johnson

Tiny Archibald
1972-1977

385 games

26.7ppg
8.9apg
2.7rpg
46.9% FG
Average wins per year 32-33


Kevin Johnson
1989-1992

310 games

21.2ppg
11.1apg
3.8rpg
50.0% FG
Average wins per year 54-55







Now choose who you got.

The 21/11/50% player on a 55 win team.
Or the 27/9/47% player on a 33 win team.





End of Tiny vs. KJ comparison. Quickly examining, even pure statistics show KJ was better for a PG.

Tiny scored more, while KJ got more assists and scored more efficiently. Passing is more important for a PG than scoring, thus KJ racked up more assists, and scored at a more efficient rate. I would say KJ is better statistically. Factor in what kind of teams they put those numbers in, and it's not even close.

Note: Kevin Johnson did it against tougher competition as well.



I know you think Tiny is better, so why?

Tiny's prime playoff success is lower than any All-Star (Not HOF or legend), that I can recall.

AI and McGrady look like they've been doing a lot of winning compared to Tiny Archibald. What do all of the numbers mean when you can't make playoffs? It's not too difficult to put great numbers on bad teams. Durant, Granger, for example. Are they both better than players like Melo? (Melo had worse numbers, but at least KJ was on par or better than Tiny statistically)

[Niquesports]

Thank You Debate Over



Pointless, in arguing with someone who looks only at awards, and thinks Larry Hughes was All-D 1st material, Duncan never deserved DPOY, Nash is a 2 Time MVP and deserved both, James Worthy > Wilkins or McAdoo ever were, Camby was a deserving DPOY, KC Jones = HOF, but not DJ, Kobe is on par with MJ on defense (All-D teams), etc.


Thanks, you have done the job for me, you have proven that you are an idiot.



I don't need to say anything else, everyone can just read and laugh at you.

You are right Im a idiot for debating with a fool
BIG DUMMY

[L.Kizzle]

Kizzle you have any arguments for Tiny? I've completely Annihilated NiqueSports.


Who do you have Kizzle?




Note: Kevin Johnson did it against tougher competition as well.



I know you think Tiny is better, so why?

Tiny's prime playoff success is lower than any All-Star (Not HOF or legend), that I can recall.

AI and McGrady look like they've been doing a lot of winning compared to Tiny Archibald. What do all of the numbers mean when you can't make playoffs? It's not too difficult to put great numbers on bad teams. Durant, Granger, for example. Are they both better than players like Melo? (Melo had worse numbers, but at least KJ was on par or better than Tiny statistically)

The only thing I'm gonna say is, about that Tiny quote about KJ. Clyde Drexler said the same thing about Tracy McGrady ... other than that's it's actually closer than we think. KJ is one of the more underrated players ever (but slightly overrated on ISH, thanks to Glove, but that's not a bad thing. We need more posters to let others see how great someone was in their time, were is a Sidney Moncrief fan at??)

But Tiny was a special player, I've seen dude play (not in person like KJ) and he was just stuck on some bad teams.

[GP_20]

The only thing I'm gonna say is, about that Tiny quote about KJ. Clyde Drexler said the same thing about Tracy McGrady ... other than that's it's actually closer than we think. KJ is one of the more underrated players ever (but slightly overrated on ISH, thanks to Glove, but that's not a bad thing. We need more posters to let others see how great someone was in their time, were is a Sidney Moncrief fan at??)

But Tiny was a special player, I've seen dude play (not in person like KJ) and he was just stuck on some bad teams.

Tiny did play with some All-Stars in his prime during those tough years. He had multiple seasons with an All-Star teammate actually. T-Mac, AI, Kobe, GP, all were able to lead their teams to the playoffs without all-stars multiple times.

The problem with Tiny was that he was too ball dominant, really never gave anyone else a chance, didn't believe in his teammates, which is really important for a superstar to do, or he will fail like Archibald did.


So the teammates excuse isn't that good. He was given All-Stars. And, like I said, I can't think of any other All-stars (forget HOFs or legends), that have made playoffs only once in their prime. It kind of makes their numbers less significant, like you do with Granger/Durant.


So do you really think Tiny is better than KJ? I can't see why. It might be closer than I am making it, but really, it's crystal clear KJ was better.

[L.Kizzle]

Tiny did play with some All-Stars in his prime during those tough years. He had multiple seasons with an All-Star teammate actually. T-Mac, AI, Kobe, GP, all were able to lead their teams to the playoffs without all-stars multiple times.

The problem with Tiny was that he was too ball dominant, really never gave anyone else a chance, didn't believe in his teammates, which is really important for a superstar to do, or he will fail like Archibald did.


So the teammates excuse isn't that good. He was given All-Stars. And, like I said, I can't think of any other All-stars (forget HOFs or legends), that have made playoffs only once in their prime. It kind of makes their numbers less significant, like you do with Granger/Durant.


So do you really think Tiny is better than KJ? I can't see why. It might be closer than I am making it, but really, it's crystal clear KJ was better.

I think Jimmie "Dynamite" Walker was his All-Star teammate right? Come on, that's like saying Baron Davis had an All-Star team mate in NO (Jamaal Magloire.) Well Jimie's better, but you see what I'm sayin. Not to mention this guy didn't have a home town. They played between four cities I believe.

[Niquesports]

The only thing I'm gonna say is, about that Tiny quote about KJ. Clyde Drexler said the same thing about Tracy McGrady ... other than that's it's actually closer than we think. KJ is one of the more underrated players ever (but slightly overrated on ISH, thanks to Glove, but that's not a bad thing. We need more posters to let others see how great someone was in their time, were is a Sidney Moncrief fan at??)

But Tiny was a special player, I've seen dude play (not in person like KJ) and he was just stuck on some bad teams.

This would have been a respectable discussion if
1 The guy had ever seen TIny play he was isiah,AI,Chris Paul even KJ before these guys
2 If he got off Tiny who anyone that know basketball was weak teams
3 He he proved something KJ did that makes him elite. something anything he has some pretty impressive numbers but nothing ground breaking he his teams never won anything and he played on some really good teams much better than the team Tiny played on and then he wants to dissmiss the Fact that TIny played a major role in helping Boston win a title he wasnt like Cassell was with Boston.
But you cant tell this guy anything

[GP_20]

I think Jimmie "Dynamite" Walker was his All-Star teammate right? Come on, that's like saying Baron Davis had an All-Star team mate in NO (Jamaal Magloire.) Well Jimie's better, but you see what I'm sayin. Not to mention this guy didn't have a home town. They played between four cities I believe.

He had 4-5 years of his prime in KC I believe.

But anyways, he played with All-Stars such as Sam Lacey and Tom Van Arsdale. Jimmy Walker is another good player he played with. You might have never heard of them, but I didn't say Tiny played with HOFs. These are juts those 1-2 time all-star type players that won't be remembered in 40 years.

They are good still.

That's still a lot better than T-Mac, Kobe, GP, and AI had it as they dragged their teams into the playoffs.


We are litterally comparing Melo to Durant here. Except, KJ put numbers on par or better than Tiny, while Melo's were clearly worse. Do you realize how much easier to have good numbers when your team is winning 33 games instead of 55?

[L.Kizzle]

He had 4-5 years of his prime in KC I believe.

But anyways, he played with All-Stars such as Sam Lacey and Tom Van Arsdale. Jimmy Walker is another good player he played with. You might have never heard of them, but I didn't say Tiny played with HOFs. These are juts those 1-2 time all-star type players that won't be remembered in 40 years.

They are good still.

That's still a lot better than T-Mac, Kobe, GP, and AI had it as they dragged their teams into the playoffs.


We are litterally comparing Melo to Durant here. Except, KJ put numbers on par or better than Tiny, while Melo's were clearly worse. Do you realize how much easier to have good numbers when your team is winning 33 games instead of 55?

I know who they are, Arsdale was past his prime though. KJ did play with some talent, (even before Chuck) Chambers, Thunder Dan, Ced, Jeff Hornacek, ect.

Its not easier as the defense is all on you now.

But, both are great players, KJ should be higher than 99. Tiny has gotten passed up on the 50 list ...

[GP_20]

I know who they are, Arsdale was past his prime though. KJ did play with some talent, (even before Chuck) Chambers, Thunder Dan, Ced, Jeff Hornacek, ect.

Its not easier as the defense is all on you now.

But, both are great players, KJ should be higher than 99. Tiny has gotten passed up on the 50 list ...

Acutually, when I was referencing to Arsdale and Lacey, I was saying they both had All-Star seasons while playing with Tiny. Thus, Arsdale was still All-Star caliber with Tiny. As was Lacey.

It's easier to put up better numbers. Is this debatable? Every star player has put up better numbers when their teammates are worse because he has the ball more, so he has better stats. Granger and Durant are starters. Kobe had some of his strongest statistical seasons when he was alone. T-Mac too, he did it in Orlando, not Houston with Ming. Payton, Jordan, Iverson, etc. The list goes on forever actually. Almost always, any player put up better stats when his teammates were worse.

This is common sense.




Can you at least make it seem like it's close Kizzle? I mean seriously, I'm starting to lose all sight of how its even close.


What's so special about missing the playoffs every year in your prime but once? What a waste of a prime. Imagine if it happened to a player today, how would they be viewed.

If you seriously think

The 21/11/50% player on a 55 win team is worse than
the 27/9/47% player on a 33 win team.

Than you might as well tell me right now you think Durant and Granger are clearly better than Melo. Stop using double standards, and choose based on how you would choose in any other situation.

[Niquesports]

Acutually, when I was referencing to Arsdale and Lacey, I was saying they both had All-Star seasons while playing with Tiny. Thus, Arsdale was still All-Star caliber with Tiny. As was Lacey.

It's easier to put up better numbers. Is this debatable? Every star player has put up better numbers when their teammates are worse because he has the ball more, so he has better stats. Granger and Durant are starters. Kobe had some of his strongest statistical seasons when he was alone. T-Mac too, he did it in Orlando, not Houston with Ming. Payton, Jordan, Iverson, etc. The list goes on forever actually. Almost always, any player put up better stats when his teammates were worse.

This is common sense.




Can you at least make it seem like it's close Kizzle? I mean seriously, I'm starting to lose all sight of how its even close.


What's so special about missing the playoffs every year in your prime but once? What a waste of a prime. Imagine if it happened to a player today, how would they be viewed.

If you seriously think

The 21/11/50% player on a 55 win team is worse than
the 27/9/47% player on a 33 win team.

Than you might as well tell me right now you think Durant and Granger are clearly better than Melo. Stop using double standards, and choose based on how you would choose in any other situation.

ITs amazing how you twist things around is Durant better than Mello.
Ok its time to take the gloves off

Lets look at what Tiny was working with
His 2 best supporting cast players
Sam Lacey at best a avg C
Tom Van Arsdale

Lets look at the teams in the Royals Division

just above them with just 40 victories
The Piston with
Dave Bing HOF TOP 50
and Bob Lanier HOF
Curtis Rowe of UCLA fame

above the Pistons were the mighty Bulls

All they had was Bob Love a true underrated player
Chet Walker same could be said
Norm Van Lier who the Royals traded becuse the were happy with TIny
Jerry Sloan

THen in first place the Bucks we know who they had.

So you really expect Tiny with Sam Lacey and one of the Van Asdale bro to out play these 3 teams .BY the way the Royals look at Tiny and looked at Norm Van Lier a very good guard and traded Van Lier
The Cavs look at mark Price and Looked at KJ and felt they'd be better off with Price.
Interesting.

above the Piston