Who was better, Patrick Ewing or David Robinson?

[hayden695]

David, dude was jacked (no homo)

[ClutchCity95]

Also, what would be some "intangibles" that Ewing brought to the table that Robinson did not? You can tell me he advanced further into the playoffs, but I will tell you that the reason why I think so is because he had a better team and a pretty damn good coach to help make it happen.

Leadership skills, toughness, passion, pretty much stuff you would have seen Jordan bring to the table. Ewing was a damn good leader, I couldn't say the same for Robinson. Ewing had a decent team, but he still led them to the NBA Finals. He had some role players who were named All-Stars, Yeah, but he was still capable of leading them there. He was the undisputed leader for the team. Robinson was too, but he just wasn't as good as Ewing at it.

I don't recall David Robinson ever having lack of heart or desire. Where did you get this from? The 1995 NBA WCF?

Well there weren't moments where he lacked heart and desire. But when he started to just settle for jumpers that was when he started to lack desire to win and be a better player.


Angdar, what did you think of my last 2 posts?

[beasted86]

Offense: Ewing
Defense: Robinson

Overall: Robinson

But Ewing is greatly underrated on thse forums. One of the most versatile centers to ever play the game... his footwork, hands, jumper, and touch around the basket were all top notch.

[TheAnchorman]

Leadership skills, toughness, passion, pretty much stuff you would have seen Jordan bring to the table. Ewing was a damn good leader, I couldn't say the same for Robinson. Ewing had a decent team, but he still led them to the NBA Finals. He had some role players who were named All-Stars, Yeah, but he was still capable of leading them there. He was the undisputed leader for the team. Robinson was too, but he just wasn't as good as Ewing at it.

Well there weren't moments where he lacked heart and desire. But when he started to just settle for jumpers that was when he started to lack desire to win and be a better player.

I'd like to see how Ewing was a better leader than Robinson. Just because Ewing leads his team to the NBA Finals does not mean that he is a superior leader, just that he had better teammates than Robinson.

When did he settle for jumpers? I see an over-generalization here. Also, you yourself said:

David Robinson was a player offensively that relied heavily on athletic ability.

But then you say that he settles for jumpers. If Scottie Pippen decides to go with his mid-ranged shot instead of finishing at the rim, will I call him out for being an unmotivated freak? I'd look more closely at the context of the situation and whether it was the right decision or not.

[Shepseskaf]

DRob was more athletically gifted, but Ewing was a better player.

In the clutch moments of a gritty, tension-packed playoff game, who do you want in the center spot? If you watched both of their careers, the obvious choice is Ewing, who had more heart and guts that Robinson could even think about.

I always got the feeling that DRob played ball because he was tall and quick, not because he loved the game. It showed. Ewing simply loved the game, and if he were only 5'10" would still have been out on some court battling somone.

Speaking of lack of heart, I have never seen an MVP-level talent be as thoroughly outclassed as Robinson was by Hakeem, when Houston swept the favored Spurs in the '95 playoffs.

[andgar923]

Leadership skills, toughness, passion, pretty much stuff you would have seen Jordan bring to the table. Ewing was a damn good leader, I couldn't say the same for Robinson. Ewing had a decent team, but he still led them to the NBA Finals. He had some role players who were named All-Stars, Yeah, but he was still capable of leading them there. He was the undisputed leader for the team. Robinson was too, but he just wasn't as good as Ewing at it.

Well there weren't moments where he lacked heart and desire. But when he started to just settle for jumpers that was when he started to lack desire to win and be a better player.


Angdar, what did you think of my last 2 posts?

You made some legit points which I think DRob fans will try to (and probably debunk). I don't know why, but I never really liked DRob that much, he just seemed too 'soft.' You might be partially correct, that it might've been his style of game, very graceful, swift, athletic, poised and it might be just appearances and nothing more. But we're not the only ones that believed DRob was a finesse (code word in basketball talk for a big man, as being 'soft.') player. I remember that was a rep that he had for his entire career.

I think we both basically agreed that DRob was slightly more skilled, and was a better athlete overall, but Ewing had the type of game that I'd consider TRUE center worthy. He was a tough, intense, physical low post player that could take you outside as well.

Dunno..... but I'd rather take Ewing. He seemed like he'd pull your teeth out with some pliers if he had too, not to win but just for fun. And you can't go wrong with that in my book!

[drza44]

Robinson. Both were absolutely electric to watch in college, though. Ewing seemed like a monster with his gray t-shirts on under his G-town jersey, and DRob came out of nowhere to put Navy on the basketball map. Two of my favorite college athletes to watch, ever.

In the pros, I was always left wanting just a bit more from Ewing. He had an outstanding career, but he was never as dominant as I thought he would be coming out of college. Robinson, on the other hand, exceeded expectations. Because of that 1 matchup with Hakeem, followed by his bad injury, I think people kind of forget just how ridiculous Robinson was. If Duncan would have played next to a fully healthy in-prime Robinson, I'm not at all sure that he would have been considered the better player. Prime Robinson was a great, great player.

[Scoooter]

Ewing was my favorite growing up (loved those 90's Knicks; Starks, LJ) but they were both fantastic. Neither could do it by themselves, but no one can, really. Imagine these two on the same team though, in twin-towers configuration. Hell, Robinson's freakshow, Chamberlain-esque athleticism with Ewing's heart, balls, and toughness.

The golden age of big men? (Especially Georgetown bigmen, with Ewing, Zo, and Deke) Maybe. Maybe more like the second great era of heavyweights (Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq::Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis) in the shadow of the Golden Greats (Wilt, Russel, KAJ, Malone::Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Norton, etc.). Not the best comparison.

[redhonda76]

I'd like to see how Ewing was a better leader than Robinson. Just because Ewing leads his team to the NBA Finals does not mean that he is a superior leader, just that he had better teammates than Robinson.

When did he settle for jumpers? I see an over-generalization here. Also, you yourself said:

But then you say that he settles for jumpers. If Scottie Pippen decides to go with his mid-ranged shot instead of finishing at the rim, will I call him out for being an unmotivated freak? I'd look more closely at the context of the situation and whether it was the right decision or not.

Ewing was a much better leader than David. Ewing will make sure his team follows the game plan and for every great play you make, he'll get the team into a chest-to-chest bumping mode. There were several times Starks was jawing with Jordan or Miller and then Ewing steps in yelling at Starks to stop falling into their mind games. He'll let his players know that they missed their defensive assignments.

Offensively Ewing was better. He didn't have wide arrays of moves like Hakeem, Ewing moves were running across the lane shot, hook shot, turn-around fade away, 15-18 foot shot and a drop step shot, which is very reliable and that's all he really needs. Ewing's offense didn't require to be athletic, that's why even at the age of 36 and with bad knees and bad foot, he was putting up top numbers. Ewing was a back to the basket post player, whereas David was a face up player. David relies too much on his athleticism on his moves.
Defensively, Robinson was better than Ewing, but Ewing wasn't bad either.

David got his ring through Duncan. Ewing at least made it to the finals. Many times, Ewing's team were stopped by Jordan's team which many considered as one of the best team ever ( record-wise ). Plus the East back then was very competitive.

Seriously, Ewing is underrated here. People here seem to judge Ewing because he don't have the same charisma, commercial appeal and athletic dunks like David does.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'll take Ewing. Despite Robinson's stats and DPOY trophy, Ewing was every bit as good if not better defensively. Patrick is easily one of the most underrated defensive players ever. I don't know why, maybe it's because of the highlights of Jordan and Pippen dunking on him?

Robinson was great, in fact he was probably better than Ewing in the regular season, but the playoffs? Aside from his first 2 seasons, Robinson's production dropped every season in the playoffs before Duncan arrived. Sometimes his production dropped dramatically, particularly in 1994 when Robinson averaged an even 20/10 on 41% shooting while losing in 4 games.

And while Ewing fought against Olajuwon, defended him well and took the finals to 7 games without homecourt, Robinson had homecourt, was heavily favored and lost convincingly in 7 games. Ewing did play tough defense throughout the series and although Anthony Mason deserves a lot of credit too, Ewing made it tough for Hakeem in 1994. Olajuwon just hit a lot of tough shots(but his production was still below his season averages. Instead of give Hakeem a good battle this is what happened when Robinson faced him head to head.

Hakeem Olajuwon- 35.3 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 5.0 apg, 4.1 bpg, 56.0 FG%
David Robinson- 23.8 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 2.7 apg, 2.2 bpg, 44.7 FG%

Robinson did have some talent around him. Certainly a core of Sean Elliott, Dennis Rodman, Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro is about as good as a core of John Starks, Charles Oakley, Derek Harper and Anthony Mason.

Elliott was a 2-time all-star and a 20 ppg scorer who shot over 40% on 3's and played good defense. Avery Johnson was a 13/9 player who was efficient(over 50%) and also played good defense. Vinny Del Negro was a great shooter and another solid scorer(12.5 ppg in '95 and 14.5 ppg in '96).

It's true that Robinson didn't have a player who could create his own shot or make plays as well as Starks, but his cast was certainly comparable to Ewing. Robinson just simply didn't want to win as bad as Ewing. For example on the last day of the 1994 season with Shaq leading the scoring race and playoff position locked up, instead of taking it easy and resting for the playoffs Robinson pads his stats(the 71 point game) vs a horrible Clipper team to win the scoring title. I can't picture Ewing going for a scoring title with playoff position secure on the last day.

In fairness Robinson turned around the Spurs in an amazing way right from the start(35 game improvement in his rookie year) and Robinson's rookie season(24/12/4) has to rank among the all-time great rookie years. But Ewing was the better low post player. I'd feel more confident throwing the ball into Ewing in the post if I needed a basket. Robinson was an athletic freak who could run the floor better than any center I've seen, but I'd build my team around Ewing.

[Flamboyant]

Robinson, and it's more clear cut than many might think. He was better on both ends. Hakeem having a great series against him, doesn't automatically make him a bad defender (or an overrated one for that matter).

[Big#50]

I'll take Ewing. Despite Robinson's stats and DPOY trophy, Ewing was every bit as good if not better defensively. Patrick is easily one of the most underrated defensive players ever. I don't know why, maybe it's because of the highlights of Jordan and Pippen dunking on him?

Robinson was great, in fact he was probably better than Ewing in the regular season, but the playoffs? Aside from his first 2 seasons, Robinson's production dropped every season in the playoffs before Duncan arrived. Sometimes his production dropped dramatically, particularly in 1994 when Robinson averaged an even 20/10 on 41% shooting while losing in 4 games.

And while Ewing fought against Olajuwon, defended him well and took the finals to 7 games without homecourt, Robinson had homecourt, was heavily favored and lost convincingly in 7 games. Ewing did play tough defense throughout the series and although Anthony Mason deserves a lot of credit too, Ewing made it tough for Hakeem in 1994. Olajuwon just hit a lot of tough shots(but his production was still below his season averages. Instead of give Hakeem a good battle this is what happened when Robinson faced him head to head.

Hakeem Olajuwon- 35.3 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 5.0 apg, 4.1 bpg, 56.0 FG%
David Robinson- 23.8 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 2.7 apg, 2.2 bpg, 44.7 FG%

Robinson did have some talent around him. Certainly a core of Sean Elliott, Dennis Rodman, Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro is about as good as a core of John Starks, Charles Oakley, Derek Harper and Anthony Mason.

Elliott was a 2-time all-star and a 20 ppg scorer who shot over 40% on 3's and played good defense. Avery Johnson was a 13/9 player who was efficient(over 50%) and also played good defense. Vinny Del Negro was a great shooter and another solid scorer(12.5 ppg in '95 and 14.5 ppg in '96).

It's true that Robinson didn't have a player who could create his own shot or make plays as well as Starks, but his cast was certainly comparable to Ewing. Robinson just simply didn't want to win as bad as Ewing. For example on the last day of the 1994 season with Shaq leading the scoring race and playoff position locked up, instead of taking it easy and resting for the playoffs Robinson pads his stats(the 71 point game) vs a horrible Clipper team to win the scoring title. I can't picture Ewing going for a scoring title with playoff position secure on the last day.

In fairness Robinson turned around the Spurs in an amazing way right from the start(35 game improvement in his rookie year) and Robinson's rookie season(24/12/4) has to rank among the all-time great rookie years. But Ewing was the better low post player. I'd feel more confident throwing the ball into Ewing in the post if I needed a basket. Robinso n was an athletic freak who could run the floor better than any center I've seen, but I'd build my team around Ewing.

Hakeem outplayed DROB but not dominated like everybody thinks. DROB was mugged by Hakeem, Chucky Brown, Horry and Carl Herrera. I know those names aren't popular but Brown was a dirty banger type of player. Drob guarded Hakeem 1 on 1 because of all the shooters Houston had. Drob had Elliot, he stepped up in one game only. Rodman played no D in this series, he hated Bob Hill. He only went after boards and the times he guarded the dream he didn't even try. **** the worm. Vinny? Avery? GTFOH! The Rockets knew DROB is a nice guy and they butchered him every chance they got. The Knicks had about 4 bigs to throw at Hakeem and they were all good defensive bruisers. No **** Hakeem played worse. But don't act like Ewing guarded him at all times or alone.Who was Drobs back up? exactly. Hakeem didn't avg 35 on DROB.



As for the 71 points, Robinson didn't even want to play in that game. He said individual stats didn't matter to him. The Spurs players, FO, and fans kept bugging him to go out there and win the scoring title. He said it was the low point of his career and was embarrassed.
He didn't lack heart, he was a nice christian guy who wouldn't hurt a fly, which freaking sucked. Imagine DROB was as mean as a young Hakeem and Jabbar, damn.

DROB>Ewing and it's not even close.

[redhonda76]

Ewing's defensive ability seems to very underrated here. If Ewing were to played today, he'll be DPOY easily. If you look at what Ewing had to compete with in the center defensive department, there was:

Hakeem
Eaton
Robinson
Zo
Deke

There can be so much awards to be given out....

[ShaqAttack3234]

Ewing's defensive ability seems to very underrated here. If Ewing were to played today, he'll be DPOY easily. If you look at what Ewing had to compete with in the center defensive department, there was:

Hakeem
Eaton
Robinson
Zo
Deke

There can be so much awards to be given out....

Yeah, I never understood why Ewing isn't mentioned among the great defensive players. He was consistently great defensively for years with the Knicks.

[Bigsmoke]

1995 Mvp