The 00's = the death of defense in the NBA? No contact league?

[bruceblitz]

No, you don't get it, you have more perimeter players taking that many shots per game (aka sf's, sg's, pg's.) Also, Kobe led the league in shots attempted 4 years in his career, he only has 2 scoring titles, in contrast Iverson led the league in shots attempted for 4 years of his career and won 4 scoring titles. Kobe is a shot jacking volume scorer. Period.

It's not just the amount of shots or points the perimeter players are scoring now, it's the type of shots, they get to the rim more:

See:

Iverson
Wade
LeBron

[smith]

Oh, and don't even get me started on the way refs call traveling...or more like how players use that nowadays.

[Fatal9]

Oh, and don't even get me started on the way refs call traveling...or more like how players use that nowadays.

Yes, everything back then was tightly regulated and all players would be capable of being on this year's all-NBA defense team.

This **** is ridiculous. Letting the travel slide has always been a criticism of the league.

[Fatal9]

No, you don't get it, you have more perimeter players taking that many shots per game (aka sf's, sg's, pg's.) Also, Kobe led the league in shots attempted 4 years in his career, he only has 2 scoring titles, in contrast Iverson led the league in shots attempted for 4 years of his career and won 4 scoring titles. Kobe is a shot jacking volume scorer. Period.

What does this have to do with anything?

You go from saying players weren't entitled to 20 shots a game like now (which they were) to some how criticizing a single player in Kobe. I think the agenda is clear by now...

Meet my ignore list, troll. It would be one thing if you were smart, but you're the KB42PAH version of a Jordan fan. You use literally the same method as him (show some youtube videos, some anecdotes, some quotes from players etc.).

[MaxFly]

As far as offense though, for instance the year Jordan averaged 37+ppg he would average over 40 and near 45 points per game in today's game.

Incidentally, they year Jordan averaged 37+ points a game, the average NBA team gave up 109.9 points a game. The tempo of the game was much faster. In contrast, the average current NBA team has significantly slowed down the tempo of the game to the point where the average team only gives up 99.6 points a game... a little more than 10 fewer points scored per game, per team. My guess is that you're saying defense has deteriorated to such an extent that Jordan could average nearly 8 more points a game more inspite of the fact that the game has slowed down so considerably...

[bruceblitz]

Incidentally, they year Jordan averaged 37+ points a game, the average NBA team gave up 109.9 points a game. The tempo of the game was much faster. In contrast, the average current NBA team has significantly slowed down the tempo of the game to the point where the average team only gives up 99.6 points a game... a little more than 10 fewer points scored per game, per team. My guess is that you're saying defense has deteriorated to such an extent that Jordan could average nearly 8 more points a game more inspite of the fact that the game has slowed down so considerably...

How would Jordan have been able to deal with:

Shaq vs Jordan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUkuQQxh-pc

Jordan was 38 years old in the videos under this line
____________________________________________
Jordan vs Pierce:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKS7uZ40kqU

Jordan vs KG, last years DPOY:
(wth KG actually guarding him)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMd1m-OOWH0


You people who think Jordan wouldn't score more ppg today, than he did in the past, clearly didn't see the likes of the Heat, Hornets, Blazers, Sonics, all the way down to Mashburn/Jackson/Blackman Mavs defend MJ. Clearly you have your head up your ass when it comes to the history of NBA defenders.

[Jacks3]

How would Jordan have been able to deal with:

Shaq vs Jordan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUkuQQxh-pc

Jordan was 38 years old in the videos under this line
____________________________________________
Jordan vs Pierce:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKS7uZ40kqU

Jordan vs KG, last years DPOY:
(wth KG actually guarding him)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMd1m-OOWH0


You people who think Jordan wouldn't score more ppg today, than he did in the past, clearly didn't see the likes of the Heat, Hornets, Blazers, Sonics, all the way down to Mashburn/Jackson/Blackman Mavs defend MJ. Clearly you have your head up your ass when it comes to the history of NBA defenders.

Good job ignoring MaxFly's post.

[juju151111]

Incidentally, they year Jordan averaged 37+ points a game, the average NBA team gave up 109.9 points a game. The tempo of the game was much faster. In contrast, the average current NBA team has significantly slowed down the tempo of the game to the point where the average team only gives up 99.6 points a game... a little more than 10 fewer points scored per game, per team. My guess is that you're saying defense has deteriorated to such an extent that Jordan could average nearly 8 more points a game more inspite of the fact that the game has slowed down so considerably...

It doesn't matter.KB averged 35 ppg in this era on 45%.Who cares wat the ratings were MJ still took the same amount of attempts even with the faster pace. Why didn't MJ production decrease in the rarly 90s with the defense ppg dropping??

[juju151111]

Good job ignoring MaxFly's post.

I just answered his post.blitz doesn't need to.

[bruceblitz]

Good job ignoring MaxFly's post.

Still no response to this:
How would Jordan have been able to deal with:

Shaq vs Jordan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUkuQQxh-pc

Jordan was 38 years old in the videos under this line
____________________________________________
Jordan vs Pierce:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKS7uZ40kqU

Jordan vs KG, last years DPOY:
(wth KG actually guarding him)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMd1m-OOWH0

[bruceblitz]

[QUOTE=bruceblitz]The death of defense?
by Roland Lazenby / October 20, 2006

[Cyclone112]

Unfortunately Fatal9, it sounds like you are one of few logical, realistic fans of basketball who has known the sport for a long time which even excludes myself. I'm 24 and even I only really witnessed Jordan in the second three peat where I was at an age where I still couldn't fully comprehend everything I was seeing. In order for someone to really compare across eras they would have to be like 40+ years old as watching basketball when you are 10 doesn't really count. Even then it is generally a matter of opinion.

People like bruceblitz and KB42PAH are just so consumed by their own love for a player you literally can't reason with them. Even if someone had hard evidence that Jordan/Kobe was better, the other one wouldn't believe it. There are just too many differences between now and then to accurately compare anything statistically and without statistics it just turns into each persons own interpretation.

Uptempo basketball plus more of a bigmen oriented league = higher ppg and higher fg%. slower pace plus perimeter player oriented league = lower ppg and lower fg%. You just can't compare stats like that because the league is so different. You can try doing stuff like per 100 possessions to compensate for the difference in uptempo basketball but that literally doesn't take into account anything. It's just a mathematical way of attempting to compare similar statistics over different scenarios.

All you can do is try to assess the different situations and establish your own opinion, it's just too bad that there are people that take it to the extreme like KB42PAH and bruceblitz who attempt to "prove" that so-and-so is the best player alive or in any era etc which generally has the opposite affect of making people hate the player they are speaking about.

[bruceblitz]

Unfortunately Fatal9, it sounds like you are one of few logical, realistic fans of basketball who has known the sport for a long time which even excludes myself. I'm 24 and even I only really witnessed Jordan in the second three peat where I was at an age where I still couldn't fully comprehend everything I was seeing. In order for someone to really compare across eras they would have to be like 40+ years old as watching basketball when you are 10 doesn't really count. Even then it is generally a matter of opinion.

People like bruceblitz and KB42PAH are just so consumed by their own love for a player you literally can't reason with them. Even if someone had hard evidence that Jordan/Kobe was better, the other one wouldn't believe it. There are just too many differences between now and then to accurately compare anything statistically and without statistics it just turns into each persons own interpretation.

Uptempo basketball plus more of a bigmen oriented league = higher ppg and higher fg%. slower pace plus perimeter player oriented league = lower ppg and lower fg%. You just can't compare stats like that because the league is so different. You can try doing stuff like per 100 possessions to compensate for the difference in uptempo basketball but that literally doesn't take into account anything. It's just a mathematical way of attempting to compare similar statistics over different scenarios.

All you can do is try to assess the different situations and establish your own opinion, it's just too bad that there are people that take it to the extreme like KB42PAH and bruceblitz who attempt to "prove" that so-and-so is the best player alive or in any era etc which generally has the opposite affect of making people hate the player they are speaking about.

kb42pah is a blowhole who uses selective editing and selective opinion making. He proves nothing with FACTS. At the very least, I prove everything I state with FACTS! The day kb42pah learns how to be realistic should be an American national holiday.

[Cyclone112]

kb42pah is a blowhole who uses selective editing and selective opinion making. He proves nothing with FACTS. At the very least, I prove everything I state with FACTS! The day kb42pah learns how to be realistic should be an American national holiday.

He does the exact same thing you do. You both are overly aggressive and insulting when trying to get your point across. You both don't listen to a word anyone says. You both use quotes, articles and self made youtube videos to "prove" points. I am a Jordan fan, I think Jordan is GOAT and I also think your posts make people HATE Jordan. You aren't helping Jordan's case. You aren't making people respect him or swaying their opinion into thinking he is GOAT. You are making people who love Kobe love Kobe and hate Jordan even more. People like you cause such huge rifts between athletes when there shouldn't be one. It should be easily possible to love Jordan AND Bryant but you easily help ruin that

All people like you and KB42PAH do is piss everyone off and make us hate the player you are vouching for. If you really love Jordan the way you say you do. Stop coming on message boards and posting 30 times a day attacking people. Make some youtube videos of Jordan that praise Jordan without purposely discrediting other players and leave it at that. Fans like you whether its music, sports, movies etc are bad. I feel sorry for anyone that has fans like you

[yobore]

First I know Jordan is the GOAT. But I think this era is as good defensively as any. Defense like everything in basketball is always becoming more sophisticated.

I don't buy that as time goes on humans have become worse basketball players when there are so many more people playing at much earlier ages, and there is so much footage and previous experience to stand on. It is just not statistically likely. The game will always evolve until the interest in basketball decreases.