Phil Jackson: Rodman is the greatest athlete I've ever coached

[RainierBeachPoet]

I happen to respect both Rodman, AND Jordan, and both players equally amazed me for different reasons. If Jordan had focused entirely on rebounding and defense, I believe he could have given Rodman a run for his money.

Both players were among the top athletes of their era or any era, both players are among the most mentally focused individuals to ever play the game. Both have a great understanding of the game from both the offensive and defensive standpoints.

Rodman will forever be underrated because he chose the tougher, less respected path.

However, to fail to acknowledge these things in either player just makes this a sad, sad, discussion.

Mathius

discussions here will generally be limited just because most of the post-ers here had never seen rodman. eventhough he became the rebounding beast in the mid 90s, i always thought his prime was with the pistons before his personal issues came into their prime

unfortunately, his off the court antics will also cast a shadow on his nba career. it is these perceptions that affect his standing in all time lists too. the sports careers of oj simpson and pete rose also will never be the same either

[Mathius]

discussions here will generally be limited just because most of the post-ers here had never seen rodman. eventhough he became the rebounding beast in the mid 90s, i always thought his prime was with the pistons before his personal issues came into their prime

unfortunately, his off the court antics will also cast a shadow on his nba career. it is these perceptions that affect his standing in all time lists too. the sports careers of oj simpson and pete rose also will never be the same either

Let me ask you something. Do you truly believe Rodman was as bad as they made him out to be? Obviously he was an attention whore, still is... That hasn't changed.

But I'm thinking back on some of the things he did, and I'm thinking... today would it be such a big deal?

Remember when the guy made headlines, because he took his shoes off on the sideline and sat down on the baseline? Today I don't think players are even allowed down in that area of the court anymore, and the dress code certainly makes taking your shoes off a no-no, but I thought it was way overblown at the time that it happened.

Of course he's known for the dresses, but that's all off court. And the hair, which today isn't a big deal. But perhaps the biggest issue, also off court was when he was found in his truck with a shotgun ready to kill himself after the Pistons got broken up and Daley was removed as head coach. Is it too unfathomable that in an era where psychology wasn't main stream like it is today, that Rodman who IIRC never knew his father had abandonment issues when his 'family'(the Pistons) was broken up and his 'father' (Daley) was taken away?

Anyways, it's a shame that this generation of kids doesn't know just how good Rodman really was. The fact that they compare him to Ben Wallace is an insult if you ask me.

Mathius

[72-10]

Since this keeps getting bumped I guess I'll venture a comment. Rodman spent most of his time in the weight room. He was a rock and pound for pound the greatest rebounder ever but he was not the world's greatest athlete.

He does not have Jordan's vertical, Jordan's lateral, Jordan's speed, Jordan's quickness, Jordan's coordination, Jordan's agility with the ball, etc. Furthermore rebounding requires absurd amounts of energy, but so does handling the ball for most of an NBA game. Rodman never had to worry about handling the ball whereas Jordan did. I'd bet that twice the calories are burned up with the ball than without it. And there is nothing that requires as much effort as driving. Rodman did not have Jordan's endurance.

Jordan would beat Rodman in the high jump, long jump, 100 m and the mile.

[RainierBeachPoet]

Let me ask you something. Do you truly believe Rodman was as bad as they made him out to be? Obviously he was an attention whore, still is... That hasn't changed.

But I'm thinking back on some of the things he did, and I'm thinking... today would it be such a big deal?

Remember when the guy made headlines, because he took his shoes off on the sideline and sat down on the baseline? Today I don't think players are even allowed down in that area of the court anymore, and the dress code certainly makes taking your shoes off a no-no, but I thought it was way overblown at the time that it happened.

Of course he's known for the dresses, but that's all off court. And the hair, which today isn't a big deal. But perhaps the biggest issue, also off court was when he was found in his truck with a shotgun ready to kill himself after the Pistons got broken up and Daley was removed as head coach. Is it too unfathomable that in an era where psychology wasn't main stream like it is today, that Rodman who IIRC never knew his father had abandonment issues when his 'family'(the Pistons) was broken up and his 'father' (Daley) was taken away?

Anyways, it's a shame that this generation of kids doesn't know just how good Rodman really was. The fact that they compare him to Ben Wallace is an insult if you ask me.

Mathius

seems to me that rodman just kept spiraling downward and he became a parody of himself. there must have been a part of hiim that didnt mind being the center of (negative) attention

his reputation preceded him and he had a huge target on his back and i believe received unfair treatment at times by the league who wanted that squeeky clean image from its players

many of rodmans incidents were overblown by the league imo. i remember watching rodman when he played for the lakers. rodman got called for a foul which he didnt think he did. he just stared at the ref; didnt say a word (i think the ref was ron garretson). and garretson gave him a technical foul. it was the worse tech i had ever seen

as good as ben wallace was, he doesnt hold a candle to rodman

[Real Men Wear Green]

So, uh, ignoring all of the Mathius ****, it was good to see the Piston part of that Rodman video. I had forgotten what young Worm was like.

[guy]

I said a LOOONG time ago that if Dennis Rodman had put as much effort into his offensive game as he did his defensive game, he'd have been as good as Michael Jordan, if not better. The guy was as mentally focused as they come, and was just as athletically gifted as any other guy.

Sorry man, but that statement is flat out wrong. Michael Jordan being as good as he was on the offensive end had to have required some natural skill, meaning even if he didn't put any work into it, he would've still had some skills. On the other hand, Dennis Rodman had absolutely none of that. If he did he would've at least been able to score like someone like Charles Oakley or Bruce Bowen but he was an absolutely horrible scorer.

[Vendetta]

The three greatest athletes Phil has ever coached are Jordan, Pippen, and Kobe. Nobody else is even close.

You're kidding, right? What about Shaq?

Shaq was so much stronger than all of these guys with every part of his body yet he was arguably quicker(not faster with running though) and could jump damn near as high despite being a hell of a lot heavier.

[Real Men Wear Green]

For being as agile as he was while still being that big and that strong, Shaq rates higher than Bryant and maybe Pippen, but no way was he as quick as those guys were.

[Vendetta]

For being as agile as he was while still being that big and that strong, Shaq rates higher than Bryant and maybe Pippen, but no way was he as quick as those guys were.

His spin move was quicker than anything Bryant could ever hope to pull off.

[jbot]

well, he said greatest "athlete" and not "ballplayer" so maybe he's right.

[schyza]

I swear I wonder sometimes if people even read the links in these threads or maybe there just too stupid to know there

See, you f*cking idiots think you know everything. When I say something you guys give me sh*t and call me a moron.

I said a LOOONG time ago that if Dennis Rodman had put as much effort into his offensive game as he did his defensive game, he'd have been as good as Michael Jordan, if not better. The guy was as mentally focused as they come, and was just as athletically gifted as any other guy.

Do you know how much more physical (muscle) effort it takes to keep tipping the ball and jumping up and down continuously like Rodman did, then it does to just glide in and dunk the ball?

Mathius

Relax man.

[Real Men Wear Green]

His spin move was quicker than anything Bryant could ever hope to pull off.

When he exploded to the rim, no one could do anything about it. But do you really think he could keep up with any of those guys on the perimeter? Explosiveness isn't quite the same thing as quickness and agility.

Too bad for people who overrate Shaq's raw athletic ability, strength has nothing to do with athleticism..

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