Talent evaluation over the years. ISH serving up the piping hot takes.

[Kblaze8855]

JohnnySic and DaHeezy are old as fvck

Im trying to find a topic I used to be able to track down with Johnny and I arguing about Antione Walker being top 10 or not in 2002.

[E_Stamkos]

This one has me rolling

Quote:
I don't understand why people are so high on Stephen Curry... what position is going to play in the NBA?? Does anyone actually think he can run an NBA team at the point, or even guard ANYONE at either PG or SG??

My NBA comparison for him is Eddie House

[Kblaze8855]

Oden vs Durant

A more athletic Nowitzki may be a better comparison for Durant than Odom...anyhow, I agree overall that Oden is the better option.

^
Thinks KD is a more athletic Dirk but still thinks Oden is better?

A lot depends on what you guys want. Do you want a forward (Kevin Durant) that runs the floor well and reminds me a lot like Dirk "I disappear in Big Games" Nowitzki. Or do you want a center (Greg Oden) that will dominate the league for years. Since Shaq is close to the end of his career and Dwight Howard will be the only legit center in the league.

People here are mentioning Oden as a franchise player at the Center position... how many centers have come into the game in the past 10 years that have turned into a franchise player? You had Shaq then you jump to Yao. The Center position is not what it used to be and to believe that he could possibly be the Next Great thing is a reach... before you say Amare he plays that position but in the system they run he isnt that back to the basket player... To me Oden is a project basically he is a good rebounder and block shots and you have to teach him everything else. That to me isnt the number one pick. Someone mentioned he is good for 10 games in the W column... Thats a reach. What is he going to do win to win 10 games? IMHO I think you have a bright star in AJ and Perkins can be servicable.

Now Durant has the tools to be something special. On both ends of the floor and I never mentioned blocking shots that isnt the only indicator of defense. He is athletic, good O, decent on D... To me thats who I build around.

People got a lot of use out of that predraft workout.....

Greg Oden is a freak of nature
Posted by Jason Quick June 04, 2007 11:24AM
The Oregonian has secured the official weights, measurements and testing results from the Orlando predraft camp, and wait until you get a load of the freak of nature called Greg Oden.

For starters, his numbers blow Kevin Durant out of the water.

There are several startling revelations in the numbers, and the one that immediately pops out is the bench press. Players were rated on how many times they could bench press 185 pounds. Oden didn't attempt the bench press in order to prevent an injury to his right wrist, which has recently recovered from injury.

But get this: Only one player was unable to bench press 185 even once - Kevin Durant.

There is more.

Oden is faster than Durant in the 3/4-court sprint, quicker in the lane-agility drill, and has better numbers in the running and standing vertical leaps. And, Oden has a mind-boggling 7.8 body-fat percentage ... most big men are north of the 12 percent range. For instance, other top-rated big men such as Washington's Spencer Hawes (13.0), Duke's Josh McRoberts (13.7) and Pitt's Aaron Gray (10.8) don't compare.

Let's get to the specifics.

Oden is 6-foot-11 without shoes, 7-feet with shoes.

He weighs 257 pounds.

His wingspan is 7 feet, 4.25 inches (fourth best in the draft). His standing reach is 9 feet, 4 inches (the highest of anyone in the draft). His standing vertical is 32 inches, his running vertical 34 inches.

The lane agility drill, where a player runs through cones alternating between running backward, sideways and forward, is 11.67 seconds. And his 3/4 court sprint was 3.27 seconds.

The thing that jumps out is Oden's speed and agility.

We all know Oregon's Aaron Brooks is fast. Brooks finished the 3/4 court sprint in 3.2 seconds. Oden was 3.27 seconds. Durant, meanwhile, finished in 3.45.

Oden's 11.67 in the agility drill speaks volumes to the footwork so many scouts rave about. Durant did the same drill in 12.33.

Durant's specifics are as follows:

Height: 6-foot-9 without shoes, 6-foot-10.25 with shoes. Weight: 215.

Wing span: 7-foot-4.75 (second longest in the draft - Maryland's Ekene Ibekwe is 7-6). Standing reach: 9-2.

Body fat: 6.6. Standing vertical jump: 26.0 inches; running vertical jump, 33.5 inches. Lane agility: 12.33 seconds and 3/4 court sprint, 3.45 seconds.

Portland general manager Kevin Pritchard declined to comment on the numbers, in part because he had just received them himself.

But really, there is no need for comment. The numbers speak volumes.

[stalkerforlife]

The NBA is political.

So many players never get a real opportunity.

There are dudes walking the street that would bust ass in the league, but you'll never even know their names.

[tontoz]

Oden was definitely a consensus over Durant. I don't remember many arguments for Durant going first.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Darko had some of the highest amount of basketball talent and skill I've ever seen.

Unfortunately he was a mental midget, he was psychologically abused by Larry Brown, and his cardio was never up to par. Neither of those things are irrelevant... they're highly relevant, obviously.

But Darko's skill will forever go down as criminally underrated. It is what it is.


Pairing Darko with Larry Brown was like pairing Kwame with MJ... those guys just mentally abused two dudes who didn't have the psychological makeup to take the abuse at that age. It's likely they both would have had better careers if they had landed in other spots as rookies.

[Kblaze8855]

Im still waiting for you to tell me how Darko should have been better than Blake who was a better ball handler, athlete, passer, and scorer and came into the league a big rebounder while Darko had all aspects of defense....aaaaand what? Blake has even become a good 3 point shooter.

I think Darkos mobility for his size caught people off guard more then than it would now....but him being skilled? Its easier to say than explain the specific things he did that suggested that.

Tell me....what skills did Darko have more of than Boris Diaw?

Handles? Shooting? Passing? Footwork?

How was Darko more skilled at basketball than Lamar Odom?

I realize its a personal issue with you we just wont see eye to eye on...im just wondering from your point of view...I swear I wont even respond.

Basketball skills wise.

Skills.

Darko vs Pau Gasol.

Darko wins that to you? It just feels like you are taking physical talent to mean basketball skills with him.

[eliteballer]

Oden's problem wasn't talent, it was health.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsCiTq4RnY0

[AirBonner]

Oden's problem wasn't talent, it was health.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsCiTq4RnY0

This. Had Oden been healthy he would of basically been an actual tough version of Embiid. No way does that guy get destroyed by Al Horford

[Kblaze8855]

Good post from a long gone poster infamous for admitting hed let someone **** him in the ass for between 5 and 50 thousand dollars:


Ob the subject of Eric Gordon going #1.

Err, you want an all-around guard, so you take a guy who only scores and brings little else to the table, and is undersized for his NBA position. Alrighty.

I think this draft has the potential to be a big letdown, to be perfectly honest. It might start to show the ugly side of the one-and-dones.

Kevin Love is 2-3 inches too short (if he's even in this draft) or else he'd be Bill Walton and Elton Brand combined. Despite my dad's (mostly true) assertion that I don't like white basketball players, I absolutely love this kid and I wish he was 7 feet tall.

O.J. Mayo is too inefficient. Honestly, if you want to know who I think he'll be most like in the NBA, I'd say Ricky Davis.

Michael Beasley is a near-guarantee to be a petulant, underachieving coach-killer. I'd like to say he'll be everything Derrick Coleman should have been. Instead, he's merely going to be everything Derrick Coleman already was, bad attitude and all.

Eric Gordon is an amazing scorer, but that's all he is; he's undersized (he's not a full 6'3" in shoes) and has average-at-best handles for an NBA two-guard, much less a point guard (which he has no ability to play). He's a spoiled brat who pouts every time things don't go his way, and I think his apathy down the stretch against UConn, including throwing the ball away with under a minute left when he should have been looking to score, was a very telling sign of what his makeup is like. There's someone in the NBA already named Gordon, and this one's going to be pretty much the exact same NBA player as the one in Chicago (though IDKWTI will get to the line more often). That's who you want as your franchise guy? An undersized shooting guard who scores 21 points a game and brings nothing else to the table? He doesn't play defense, he doesn't rebound, he can't play the point at all and he's got a size disadvantage against almost everyone he goes against? That's your No. 1 pick?

DeAndre Jordan is more of an athlete than a basketball player right now (a guy averaging less than 10 and 7, only getting 21 minutes a game on a team that needs a lot more out of him, is a Top 5 pick right now? Seriously?).

I'm being somewhat overly critical to make a point: there is not a Kevin Durant or Greg Oden in the midst here. This may be a deeper group, but there aren't superstars here.

Except Derrick Rose.

I don't care if a team who thinks they already have a point guard gets the No. 1 pick. Unless the Hornets, Jazz or Suns by some act of something unholy get the No. 1 overall selection, I cannot think of an explanation as to why Gordon, Jordan, Beasley, or anyone else should be taken over Derrick Rose. He has things he needs to work on as well, but he has the capability to improve them quickly. Rose doesn't have the fatal flaws the other guys have (fatal in that it will keep them from being a true franchise guy as an NBA player; they're all capable of being good pros).

To be perfectly honest, aside from Rose I don't think there's a single guy I like as much as I liked Mike Conley last year, much less Durant and Oden. It's an outstanding freshman class as collegiates, but it's a bunch of guys who mostly should be going back to school that won't because they're all going to be taken in the Top 10.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Im still waiting for you to tell me how Darko should have been better than Blake who was a better ball handler, athlete, passer, and scorer and came into the league a big rebounder while Darko had all aspects of defense....aaaaand what? Blake has even become a good 3 point shooter.

I think Darkos mobility for his size caught people off guard more then than it would now....but him being skilled? Its easier to say than explain the specific things he did that suggested that.

Tell me....what skills did Darko have more of than Boris Diaw?

Handles? Shooting? Passing? Footwork?

How was Darko more skilled at basketball than Lamar Odom?

I realize its a personal issue with you we just wont see eye to eye on...im just wondering from your point of view...I swear I wont even respond.

Basketball skills wise.

Skills.

Darko vs Pau Gasol.

Darko wins that to you? It just feels like you are taking physical talent to mean basketball skills with him.

Darko had amazing moves around the basket and a wet jumper. He would just randomly do shit that would drop your jaw. And then within the next couple of plays he'd go back to looking like a bust. There were multiple things wrong with Darko Milicic that resulted in him busting, but I'm just not sure you saw enough of his brilliance to really understand what I'm talking about. It's been such a long time now that the memories are starting to fade because he wasn't playing for the Magic for a tremendously long time...

I just remember, as I said, brilliance in the post, brilliance with mid range shooting, brilliance with putting the ball on the floor... and then just completely mentally checking out of the game, making boneheaded plays, or running out of gas... and ending up looking like a bust more often than not.

The shit that he did when he was on the team with Dwight Howard made Dwight look like a bitch on offense and even sometimes defense.

It's really difficult to fully articulate it without having seen it all. I'm not sure I'm capable of as much, and it's been so long now that it's like... lol.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Also... check this out...

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2017/0...orlando-magic/

Even Darko felt he had what I saw when he was with the Magic... specifically references Orlando as he was starting to feel like a contributor... then the Magic ditched him and he spiraled down again from there.

He had mental hurdles in terms of NBA success for various reasons. It is what it is.

[Kblaze8855]

Felt he had what you saw? You apparently saw someone more skilled than 7 foot guys who have hooks over both shoulders with counters, faceup moves out the ass, 3 point range, and passing like a point guard. We just....have a very different idea of what 6 nice plays a week actually means. In my world...it means you arent very good.

Everyones nice if you judge them off the few things they did to turn anyones head. Dont count all the shitty parts....Eddy Curry is a hall of fame talent.

Only count the spectacular shit you saw Darko do...then only count the spectacular shit you saw Blake Griffin do. Compare these moments in your head..not volume...the "That guy is...something" aspect....im not asking you to tell me anything. Just....picture the Darko great moments and the Blake ones. I'll leave the rest unsaid and leave you alone while I eat yesterdays pizza.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Felt he had what you saw? You apparently saw someone more skilled than 7 foot guys who have hooks over both shoulders with counters, faceup moves out the ass, 3 point range, and passing like a point guard. We just....have a very different idea of what 6 nice plays a week actually means. In my world...it means you arent very good.

Everyones nice if you judge them off the few things they did to turn anyones head. Dont count all the shitty parts....Eddy Curry is a hall of fame talent.

Anyways...

[AlternativeAcc.]

Those anti-curry posts were spot on

Glad you included some posts that actually became true