#1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

[plowking]

You are right he should of played LeBron ball and went for only 3 pointers and lay ups, saving his TS%, losing the series, and then still able to fall back and say "not enough help."

Genius.

So when he shoots against the Warriors, it is bad.
When he shoots efficiently against the Spurs, it is bad.

Does Lebron ever do any right?

[sdot_thadon]

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

Death by 1st reply.

[Smoke117]

How about when the team carried Jordan in the 5-19 performance?
Can you imagine Bron's Cavaliers beating a 66 win team like the Sonics, or say the GSW with Bron shooting 5-19?

Or how about his massive choke in 98 against the Pacers in game 7? 9/25 and down almost the whole game? Thankfully Kukoc and Kerr are there to hit the big shots and carry him to victory.


All this bullshit talk about MJ being on a whole other level mentally, and his will to win needs to stop. Like anyone who has ever played sports, you realise a lot of it is up to you, but then there is being the winner of circumstance and chance, and those are all the things that came together for MJ in a way that didn't for many others.

MJ is no better a player than Shaq or Wilt or Lebron. Those 4 in all likelihood are probably the best basketball players ever. If one is better than the other, it isn't because of some BS, arbitrary standard you hold them to. 2/6 for Bron? Who cares. 1/9 for West? Who cares. Is West any worse a player because he lost 8 times? Clearly he is good enough to compete on the biggest stage every time.

Why are you even bothering? You can't reason with a clown like 3ball. Just put 1-9 like I do and otherwise ignore him.

[livinglegend]

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

/ thread

[LAZERUSS]

So when he shoots against the Warriors, it is bad.
When he shoots efficiently against the Spurs, it is bad.

Does Lebron ever do any right?

[LAZERUSS]

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

THIS!

[LAZERUSS]

Not only was it amazing that the '94 Bulls went 55-27, but they did so DESPITE having Pippen (WOAT), and Grant, who was a below average PF.

No doubt about it...Pete Myers was MJ-like in '94.

[tmacattack33]

Every single player, coach and analyst says this.. Among non-big men - Bird, Magic, and MJ elevated teammates better than anyone.. Kobe does well too - the story was never that his teammates underperformed.

Otoh, the story is ALWAYS how Lebron's teammates underperform - this is because he turns them into play-finishers and their predictable play-finishing roles no longer succeed against the best teams in the playoffs.

This inferior brand of basketball that Lebron imposes on his team is why his team/supporting cast underperforms - it's like clockwork... 2/7 anyone?.. Utimately, this is why he isn't a top 10 all-time player.
.

Yes, one of the best passers of all time in Lebron James does not make his teammates better.

He's never carried a team of role players into the NBA Finals or ECF.

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, I have MJ over Lebron...as does virtually every intelligent poster on this forum (and elsewhere.) But I get sick-and-tired of the daily "Lebron-bashing" that goes on with 3ball.

MJ has a case for GOAT (and most likely the majority feel he is), and Lebron does not. But Lebron certainly is a Top-10 player.

[SouBeachTalents]

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

Thread ended after the first reply

[RRR3]

There aren't enough touches for Love and Bosh to put up 24+ PPG as 3rd options. Why don't people get this? Should LeBron just shoot 5 times a game and force feed Love just so his stats look like they did in minneosta? Jesus. LeBron doesn't hurt his teammates. He's not as helpful as some act like though.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

Every single player, coach and analyst says this.. Among non-big men - Bird, Magic, and MJ elevated teammates better than anyone.. Kobe does well too - the story was never that his teammates underperformed.

Otoh, the story is ALWAYS how Lebron's teammates underperform - this is because he turns them into play-finishers and their predictable play-finishing roles no longer succeed against the best teams in the playoffs.

This inferior brand of basketball that Lebron imposes on his team is why his team/supporting cast underperforms - it's like clockwork... 2/7 anyone?.. Utimately, this is why he isn't a top 10 all-time player.
.

nope

not dealing with this shit again

[ShawkFactory]

Wrong.

Scottie was hot garbage before Jordan, this is a known fact.

Scottie still wasn't the greatest even with the Jordan factor but still, if you are gonna try to tell us with a straight face that Scottie would of been better with out Jordan you are just trolling.

Scottie wasn't great but with out Jordan? He would of been straight shithouse material.

Do you ever know what you're talking about?

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

Not only was it amazing that the '94 Bulls went 55-27, but they did so DESPITE having Pippen (WOAT), and Grant, who was a below average PF.

No doubt about it...Pete Myers was MJ-like in '94.

I prefer to look at SRS when determining team success in teh regular season (has the best correlation with playoff success in my research, nearly 50% of the teams with the highest SRS won the championship post 1980)

the bulls SRS did drop a good bit post Jordan, but it was still the SRS of a 49-51 win team.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

Lolz