What is the ideal way for a player to handle not wanting to sign?

[DMAVS41]

Outside of winning the title, I don't see Leonard staying on that team with a declining Lowry, but who knows...

We all thought PG was gone.

But Leonard with a home in San Diego is problematic to say the least.

[Kblaze8855]

Telling the team as early as possible and doing it privately, not publicly.

Same thing now.

You have GMs like Dumars who was sending secret NBA emails straight to WOJ.

And you know he wasnt the only one. 10 minutes after a trade request too many people know about it. Even if the GM only tells his owner it gets out. Family...friends. Once you call another team thats a wrap. Its gonna get double confirmation and be run with by legit news sites instantly.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Well the difference between 150 and 180 is practically nothing when we're talking about numbers this big. If you're responsible with money, you're set for life at either number.

The gap has to be higher than that to see if they really want out, to allow them the mobility they deserve, AND to safeguard the teams.

We can't just have player mobility at any given moment on a whim without some protections for the teams.

Right now, the teams are too protected.

We need a balance and the league has yet to figure it out.

[DMAVS41]

Same thing now.

You have GMs like Dumars who was sending secret NBA emails straight to WOJ.

And you know he wasnt the only one. 10 minutes after a trade request too many people know about it. Even if the GM only tells his owner it gets out. Family...friends. Once you call another team thats a wrap. Its gonna get double confirmation and be run with by legit news sites instantly.

No doubt the likelihood of a leak is high, but some teams won't leak stuff.

The Clippers, for example, seem to always be able to work mostly in secret.

But yea...reality is exactly what you say.

Still though, from the team view...you'd rather know privately first than publicly.

[kennethgriffen]

And that is how you get Curt Flood and Oscar Robertson trying to take you to the supreme court.

You should watch the NBA players testify to congress about it. There are some videos from the 70s showing how it worked out. The had some guys from the Hawks explaining the problems of your system. It was found to be an antitrust violation limiting competition. The law literally would not allow the NBA to merge with the ABA because it removed the only option players had to force competition. The lesser leagues were not deemed viable enough to avoid the conflict. It was pretty much deemed an anti competitive merger and blocked for 6 years.

The reserve clause will never be back in any major American sport. I think the MLS has it right now but they will beat it too. Those days are over.

its a business. the owners run the business. if you don't like where you're positioned then quit


what other business gives its employees the right to choose where they work


when i worked i couldn't just call up a district manager and demand they move me to another location


the location (team) i worked for had a boss ( GM ) that controlled my fate. sure i did all the work and sold all the merchandise for them. it was my blood and sweat making sales. but that doesn't make me an equal partner.. for that to happen i would need to become an investor/share holder


if these players want say in the direction of a franchise then they can try and find a way to raise 1.5 to 2 billion dollars. go to the owner and get a 50/50 share

[Kblaze8855]

George no doubt shocked some people in LA but we forget how young he is. Hes gonna be a free agent again when hes like 30. His deal only has 2 seasons after this one till hes got a player option. He will be able to sign anywhere when hes the age Durant will be entering next season. If he wants to go home hes got plenty of time.

[DMAVS41]

Well the difference between 150 and 180 is practically nothing when we're talking about numbers this big. If you're responsible with money, you're set for life at either number.

The gap has to be higher than that to see if they really want out, to allow them the mobility they deserve, AND to safeguard the teams.

We can't just have player mobility at any given moment on a whim without some protections for the teams.

Right now, the teams are too protected.

We need a balance and the league has yet to figure it out.

I don't know, it seems pretty balanced now....

Teams don't actually have to trade players when there is a demand and some of these problems simply are impossible to fix as long as some markets are more desirable and some franchises are much better / worse at building teams than others.

[Ben Simmons 25]

its a business. the owners run the business. if you don't like where you're positioned then quit


what other business gives its employees the right to choose where they work


when i worked i couldn't just call up a district manager and demand they move me to another location


the location (team) i worked for had a boss ( GM ) that controlled my fate. sure i did all the work and sold all the merchandise for them. it was my blood and sweat making sales. but that doesn't make me an equal partner.. for that to happen i would need to become an investor/share holder


if these players want say in the direction of a franchise then they can try and find a way to raise 1.5 to 2 billion dollars. go to the owner and get a 50/50 share

Without getting too deep into it, for an extremely large percentage of businesses, they could lay off their entire staff, suffer the growing pains for a few years, and just move on no problem as if nothing ever happened.

If the NBA wiped the slate of every current NBA player and those players formed another league, the NBA would be out of business in short order.

This is not an apples to apples comparison when you compare the NBA to a regular business.

[DMAVS41]

George no doubt shocked some people in LA but we forget how young he is. Hes gonna be a free agent again when hes like 30. His deal only has 2 seasons after this one till hes got a player option. He will be able to sign anywhere when hes the age Durant will be entering next season. If he wants to go home hes got plenty of time.

True, but he took a discount and signed for 3 full years with a player option in year 4.

Giving the Thunder 3 years at a discount was a pretty shocking outcome.

[Ben Simmons 25]

I don't know, it seems pretty balanced now....

Teams don't actually have to trade players when there is a demand and some of these problems simply are impossible to fix as long as some markets are more desirable and some franchises are much better / worse at building teams than others.

Players shouldn't be locked into playing for a team for ANY number of years greater than 1 except on a rookie contract. The PA and NBA need to figure out a way to heavily incentivize players to not opt out... but players should be allowed to opt out annually.

This allows player mobility and freedom and protections for the franchises.

Maybe at year 4 or 5 of playing for a franchise a player still has hope but maybe at year 6 or 7 he's completely given up hope. He should be allowed to leave without there being a circus about it.

[DMAVS41]

Players shouldn't be locked into playing for a team for ANY number of years greater than 1 except on a rookie contract. The PA and NBA need to figure out a way to heavily incentivize players to not opt out... but players should be allowed to opt out annually.

Shouldn't is a bit of a tough word...

If the goal is to build out a league with 30 teams....teams need to have some type of control of their assets, especially the players they draft because that is easily the best path to building a 10 plus year span of being good.

If players can opt out annually...it would be a nightmare imo....long-term planning just goes out the window and it would just be madness.

[Ben Simmons 25]

Shouldn't is a bit of a tough word...

If the goal is to build out a league with 30 teams....teams need to have some type of control of their assets, especially the players they draft because that is easily the best path to building a 10 plus year span of being good.

If players can opt out annually...it would be a nightmare imo....long-term planning just goes out the window and it would just be madness.

Not if you give them extreme financial incentive to stay put. And I mean extreme. Do you really want to leave or do you just want to eat your cake and have it, too? See what I mean? I'm not in support of the players trying to eat their cake and have it, too. I'm in support of them getting SOME level of choice beyond what is currently offered.

Additionally, the league needs to contract probably 6 franchises at least but that'll never happen because overall revenue would decrease, heh.

[DMAVS41]

Not if you give them extreme financial incentive to stay put. And I mean extreme. Do you really want to leave or do you just want to eat your cake and have it, too? See what I mean?

Additionally, the league needs to contract probably 6 franchises at least but that'll never happen because overall revenue would decrease, heh.

What is extreme?

Because the current financial incentive is pretty big, and it isn't working...and if you did that, you'd have rookies posturing constantly to try and get to certain franchises.

Also, while I agree that contraction would greatly help to go down to 12 per conference...it isn't happening.

[Ben Simmons 25]

The following franchises are complete dogshit...

Cleveland
Orlando
Atlanta
New Orleans
Charlotte
Brooklyn

The Clippers should also be on the list.

[Kblaze8855]

its a business. the owners run the business. if you don't like where you're positioned then quit


what other business gives its employees the right to choose where they work


when i worked i couldn't just call up a district manager and demand they move me to another location


the location (team) i worked for had a boss ( GM ) that controlled my fate. sure i did all the work and sold all the merchandise for them. it was my blood and sweat making sales. but that doesn't make me an equal partner.. for that to happen i would need to become an investor/share holder


if these players want say in the direction of a franchise then they can try and find a way to raise 1.5 to 2 billion dollars. go to the owner and get a 50/50 share

But then we return to the real world where this was settled long ago. Curt Flood actually challenged it using the 13th amendment claiming that a contract to play....that you have no choice but to honor or quit...is both a violation of the involuntary servitude section and an anti trust violation used to reduce wages by not allowing competition. It went to the supreme court. He didnt exactly win but it ended up in arbitration and he essentially won in time. Years later we got what was called the Curt Flood act. Congress passed a law officially saying pro sports leagues are held to the same monopoly laws other big businesses were in the 1914 Clayton act.

Essentially.....Curt Flood took one for the team, got blackballed from the sport, and got federal laws changed so your plan...would simply never happen again. He even got automatic no trade clauses after being on a team 5 years or just in baseball for 10.

The NBA wants no part of the lawsuit that would result from trying to bring back the reserve rule. The only way MLS gets away with it is because it was founded as one central owned league without independent teams. ITs technically one giant company with different branches. You dont own an MLS team like you own an NBA team. You just operate it like a franchised restaurant. Its set up to specifically avoid the reserve clause lawsuit.

Once its strong enough to have real value for its teams and private owners really fighting eachother that shit is over.

NBA owners compete. They would never put themselves under one umbrella and lose out on the massive profit from being able to sell your team for 2-3 billion dollars whenever you want. NBA teams get handed down through families.

NBA....NFL...MLB?

No reserve clause will ever return.