Option 1:Wade + Bosh Option 2: Shaq

[Gotterdammerung]

Which one would you rather pick to surround your superstar in order to win championships. Shortcut #1 or Option #2?

Shaq, no question.


He was the greatest power center ever to play the game. More powerful than Wilt Chamberlain, tho not as versatile in scoring, and more dominant than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, tho not as unstoppable, and more relentless than Moses Malone, tho not as consistent.

Dwyane Wade's talents overlap with LeBron James far too much, and it took them nearly 2 years to figure it out, how to play off the ball, despite being in their primes.

Chris Bosh is a solid all-star, effective, but nothing dominant.

Every intelligent GM will go with Shaq.

Every troll will go with "shortcut #1."

[Bigsmoke]

Mike Miller dropped 7 threes in the finals for the Heat last season, foo'.
Battier has always been a great player, he has been defending the opposite team's best player for YEARS, and doesn't need the ball in his hands, can knock down the 3 shot and make clutch defensive plays.

for so many years that he's getting old maybe

just because Mike Miller showed up in 1 game doesn't mean he is a bragging right to have nowadays. LeBron was the reason why he was so opened in the first place

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Lol. You say that like that's some epic roster or something.

I don't remember those Lakers shooting anything like this in any series during the 3 peat.



39/82 48% from 3

[Bigsmoke]

Alright, then let's call a spade a spade. I don't see why we should diminish Kobe for winning with Shaq. Nobody diminishes Magic for winning with Kareem. But if you want to say Kobe piggy backed Shaq for 3 rings, let's also bring up that LeBron visibly pouted and quit on his team in an odd turn of events after game 3 vs Boston in 2010. He then BEGGED for help to get a ring and moved to another top 3 superstar's franchise and city who had also already acquired another top 15-20 perennial All-Star/Top 5 PF in the league because the route to a ring and multiple rings was tremendously easier than it would have been anywhere else. Hence why he said they would win 8 rings and "once the game starts, it's gonna be easy" and why Wade said "I feel sorry for whoever has to guard us."

let's say LeBron stayed in cleveland and the Cavs continued to do little effort to bring in talent. We would all be like

"LeBron could have went to the Heat and form a dynasty but instead he picked the money like a dumbass"

he would be in KG's shoes when he was in Minny

[LikeABosh]

Alright, then let's call a spade a spade. I don't see why we should diminish Kobe for winning with Shaq. Nobody diminishes Magic for winning with Kareem. But if you want to say Kobe piggy backed Shaq for 3 rings, let's also bring up that LeBron visibly pouted and quit on his team in an odd turn of events after game 3 vs Boston in 2010. He then BEGGED for help to get a ring and moved to another top 3 superstar's franchise and city who had also already acquired another top 15-20 perennial All-Star/Top 5 PF in the league because the route to a ring and multiple rings was tremendously easier than it would have been anywhere else. Hence why he said they would win 8 rings and "once the game starts, it's gonna be easy" and why Wade said "I feel sorry for whoever has to guard us."

btw for all this talk about "alphas" and #1 options" usually, when a guy is the undisputed alpha, he's the player taking the last shots, closing out games, being a go to guy when the game is on the line among many other things. For the Lakers, that was often Kobe Bryant. That isn't often examined... Kobe was generally "plan B" throughout the game as far as scoring goes. However in the 4th quarter, he often became "plan A" and sometimes, "plan AA" if Phil sat Shaq because of hack-a-Shaq. In the history of the game, how often were guys who were riding the coattails of other players asked to take over so consistently? Plus, it's not like Kobe was a role player or a Tony Parker level 2nd option.
He was part of a one-two punch duo, and he averaged 21/5/4, 29/7/6, 27/6/5 in the playoffs in the playoffs while taking the last shots.

I'm not trying to diminish what Kobe did, I'm just calling out OP for being a retard. Acting like like Kobe some how had it tougher than Lebron has it with ****ing prime Shaq Phil Jackson and the most illustrious franchise in NBA history

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I'm not trying to diminish what Kobe did, I'm just calling out OP for being a retard. Acting like like Kobe some how had it tougher than Lebron has it with ****ing prime Shaq Phil Jackson and the most illustrious franchise in NBA history

Do you think Magic, Kareem and West were on the team too? Their history had nothing to do with winning those titles on the court.

[Ne 1]

let's say LeBron stayed in cleveland and the Cavs continued to do little effort to bring in talent. We would all be like

"LeBron could have went to the Heat and form a dynasty but instead he picked the money like a dumbass"

he would be in KG's shoes when he was in Minny

Well who knows how well that 2010 Cavs team does if LeBron doesn't visibly quit and pout vs Boston. Even Delonte West played better than LeBron during that game 5 vs Boston where he gave up on his team before the series was over. We'll never know now what their capabilities were. Did LeBron have a superstar co-runner with the Cavs? No, but he had well built teams with appropriate pieces that fit LeBron's game, strength and playing stye and the worst part about that whole debacle was that years Cavs team actually did have a legit shot at winning a championship. If the Cavs could have gotten past the East they would have had the eventual champion Lakers, who they swept during the regular season. The would have faced Orlando again that year but this time with Shaq who was their to slow down and cause problems for Dwight. The Cavs also had home court advantage for two straight 60+ win seasons and couldn't get to the Finals once and got bounced in the semis as a 1st seed. A team that is capable of winning 60+ wins two seasons in a row isn't capable of winning a title? I think not. I don't see how Lebron didn't have a " good enough team" when it was HIM who played poorly game 5 vs Boston and not his teammates. James was 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while a shell of himself Shaq was 7-11 and Parker was 5-8.

But anyway the point is James didn't compete to the best of his abilities. Look at the 2012 Heat. They were worse talent wise and health wise than the 2011 Heat and IMO faced a superior Finals opponent, and a better Conference Finals opponent. What was the difference? LeBron tried. In 2011, he gave up in the Finals and went into full Casper mode.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I hate the guy, but Wade is one of the best slashers of all time, and his mid-range was money in 2006 (let's not forget the "zebras", but they would be in full effect for Lebron too, so that's a wash), which are two things Lebron cannot do consistently at an elite level.

Barreling into defenders is not slashing, and I can see him missing critical free throws, forcing him to overthink his drive and shoot instead (which usually becomes unreliable in the playoffs) and pass more, but who's gonna shoot/slash/create for him? Especially in the 4th quarters when Shaq is busy missing most of his own free throws.

Okay, the actual facts:

- Lebron this year is shooting a better percentage from mid range than Dwyane Wade did in '06.

- If you want to say all Lebron does is "barrel into defenders" that's fine but he still gets to the rim and converts at an elite level so it doesn't matter how he does it.

- They both shoot roughly the same FT%. Lebron is actually shooting better than wade in "clutch time".

[Bigsmoke]

Well who knows how well that 2010 Cavs team does if LeBron doesn't visibly quit and pout vs Boston. Even Delonte West played better than LeBron during that game 5 vs Boston where he gave up on his team before the series was over. We'll never know now what their capabilities were. Did LeBron have a superstar co-runner with the Cavs? No, but he had well built teams with appropriate pieces that fit LeBron's game, strength and playing stye and the worst part about that whole debacle was that years Cavs team actually did have a legit shot at winning a championship. If the Cavs could have gotten past the East they would have had the eventual champion Lakers, who they swept during the regular season. The would have faced Orlando again that year but this time with Shaq who was their to slow down and cause problems for Dwight. The Cavs also had home court advantage for two straight 60+ win seasons and couldn't get to the Finals once and got bounced in the semis as a 1st seed. A team that is capable of winning 60+ wins two seasons in a row isn't capable of winning a title? I think not. I don't see how Lebron didn't have a " good enough team" when it was HIM who played poorly game 5 vs Boston and not his teammates. James was 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while a shell of himself Shaq was 7-11 and Parker was 5-8.

But anyway the point is James didn't compete to the best of his abilities. Look at the 2012 Heat. They were worse talent wise and health wise than the 2011 Heat and IMO faced a superior Finals opponent, and a better Conference Finals opponent. What was the difference? LeBron tried. In 2011, he gave up in the Finals and went into full Casper mode.

here is what i see from what u wrote

-The Cavs lost by 32 in game 5 vs the Celtics. The Celtics were just roling that game and were going to win regarless on how well LeBron James played. LeBron for the most part make Paul Pierce look hell of average in that series but the Celtics had other player completely outplaying their matchups.

-The Heat in 2011 was really just 3 guys going apeshit. Wade was better in 2011 but they had mad holes in their roster and Erik Spoelstra was badly outcoached by rick carlisle

-The Cavs didn't do much to keep LeBron james in Cleveland during the off season. The Heat, Bulls, and the Knicks all had brought in players to attract LeBron's attention while the Cavs didn't do anything to retool.

-Cleveland is a shitty city. Cold, boring, depressing, smelly, you name it. Chicago and NY are cold too but at least we have... i dont know... shit to do

[RRR3]

Thread backfire. Peggy butthurt as usual, no one listening to his sad attempts at trolling.

[Ne 1]

here is what i see from what u wrote
..........

here is what i see from what u wrote:

Whenever LeBron's teams lost, it was all because of his teammates, coach and front office, but whenever they win, it's all because of LeBron's greatness, in fact he's so great that he needed to collude and join forces with two other superstars in their prime in order to win championships.

In other word's: me and pauk are ISH's official LeBron apologists. (pauk actually blamed Wade for Miami's melt down against Dallas in '11, not even joking)

[LikeABosh]

Do you think Magic, Kareem and West were on the team too? Their history had nothing to do with winning those titles on the court.

Lakers are a superbly run organization.

[Bigsmoke]

here is what i see from what u wrote:

Whenever LeBron's teams lost, it was all because of his teammates, coach and front office, but whenever they win, it's all because of LeBron's greatness, in fact he's so great that he needed to collude and join forces with two other superstars in their prime in order to win championships.

In other word's: me and pauk are ISH's official LeBron apologists. (pauk actually blamed Wade for Miami's melt down against Dallas in '11, not even joking)

i think LeBron's failure are well documented

[NumberSix]

Not that this has anything to do with anything, but wasn't there a story about an ISH poster who followed Kobe's into a men's-room?

[RRR3]

Not that this has anything to do with anything, but wasn't there a story about an ISH poster who followed Kobe's into a men's-room?

They wanted to see the Black Mamba.