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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    Quote Originally Posted by fpliii
    for Russell I'd say any of 63-64, 64-65, 65-66 (66-67 would be on his list but he didn't win a ring, and it wasn't appreciably better); his physical prime was perhaps earlier but I think that three (four) year period definitely contains his playing peak
    I honestly would have put '61-'62 as Russell's peak season. While I know that his primary greatness was seen on the defensive end, it appears that '62 was his best overall offensive season in both the regular season and playoffs.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    So 1999-00 for Shaq?

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    Quote Originally Posted by REACTION
    So 1999-00 for Shaq?
    I think that is pretty much the consensus. From what I've seen and read many consider Shaq's '00 season do be one of the most dominant in NBA history.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    Quote Originally Posted by fpliii
    perhaps; I have to remain objective until this h2h project is complete though, so I'm going to withhold an opinion for now

    I'm going to post on APBR either tonight or tomorrow (I've had an account for years, haven't posted though), and see what they have to add

    I'm also going to go through and create a bounty list (well, not literally since there is no reward, other than the satisfaction of helping out) listing the cells that need completion in order of precedence in tiers (I'll post it in the '1962...' thread)
    Statistically, Russell has no case over Wilt. Now, I will agree that he generally elevated the play of his teammates, though. Meanwhile, while I don't see a shred of evidence which shows that Wilt played considerably different from his regular season play, to his post-season play, his teammates routinely crumbled in their post-season play.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    Quote Originally Posted by jlauber
    Statistically, Russell has no case over Wilt. Now, I will agree that he generally elevated the play of his teammates, though. Meanwhile, while I don't see a shred of evidence which shows that Wilt played considerably different from his regular season play, to his post-season play, his teammates routinely crumbled in their post-season play.
    Respectfully, can we please leave the Russell vs. Chamberlain debate for another thread?

  6. #36
    sahelanthropus fpliii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    Quote Originally Posted by jlauber
    Statistically, Russell has no case over Wilt. Now, I will agree that he generally elevated the play of his teammates, though. Meanwhile, while I don't see a shred of evidence which shows that Wilt played considerably different from his regular season play, to his post-season play, his teammates routinely crumbled in their post-season play.
    that's very true, but I can't take a position until I'm no longer a part of the project...if I choose one side or the other that taints the data

    WC statistically dominated BR, I'll admit that, but I can't say that one was the clear better/greater player at the moment

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    Anyone disagree with putting 1961-62 for Russell?

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    Quote Originally Posted by jlip
    Respectfully, can we please leave the Russell vs. Chamberlain debate for another thread?
    Well, the point is...Wilt, at his best, just dominated ALL of his peers, including Russell. You can find centers who dramatically reduced a prime Kareem, in his best seasons. But, a prime Wilt just pounded ALL of the best centers of his era. You would be hardpressed to find individual games in which his opposing centers outplayed him, but you will find many in which he just crushed them.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    Quote Originally Posted by fpliii
    that's very true, but I can't take a position until I'm no longer a part of the project...if I choose one side or the other that taints the data

    WC statistically dominated BR, I'll admit that, but I can't say that one was the clear better/greater player at the moment
    Agreed. (And that is also why I didn't want edit access to your spreadsheet.)

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    Quote Originally Posted by REACTION
    Anyone disagree with putting 1961-62 for Russell?
    I don't have a problem with it, but I believe Russell, himself, claimed that his 63-64 or 64-65 seasons, were his best. His 64-65 post-season, particularly his Finals, was among the best ever.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    Quote Originally Posted by jlauber
    Well, the point is...Wilt, at his best, just dominated ALL of his peers, including Russell. You can find centers who dramatically reduced a prime Kareem, in his best seasons. But, a prime Wilt just pounded ALL of the best centers of his era. You would be hardpressed to find individual games in which his opposing centers outplayed him, but you will find many in which he just crushed them.
    I agree, but I thought the primary purpose of this particular thread was simply to list the primes of the individual player not necessarily to determine whose prime was greater than the other.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    Quote Originally Posted by jlip
    I agree, but I thought the primary purpose of this particular thread was simply to list the primes of the individual player not necessarily to determine whose prime was greater than the other.
    Good point. I will say this, though, ...from my limited research, only a peak Shaq, peak Moses, and a peak Wilt thoroughly dominated most all of their best peers.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    scalabrine is still in his prime

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    Quote Originally Posted by jlip
    I agree, but I thought the primary purpose of this particular thread was simply to list the primes of the individual player not necessarily to determine whose prime was greater than the other.
    Yeah. Debates about which season is a player's best are welcomed, but let's avoid player vs. player debates.

  15. #45
    sahelanthropus fpliii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official List of Primes (Best Seasons)

    Quote Originally Posted by jlip
    I honestly would have put '61-'62 as Russell's peak season. While I know that his primary greatness was seen on the defensive end, it appears that '62 was his best overall offensive season in both the regular season and playoffs.
    here are the approximate defensive ratings of the Boston teams during BR's tenure:

    57 - 85
    58 - 84
    59 - 86
    60 - 86
    61 - 85
    62 - 86
    63 - 88
    64 - 84
    65 - 85
    66 - 89
    67 - 92
    68 - 93
    69 - 90

    (bolded are his best 5 defenses)

    DRtg is largely useless for individual players, except when you're dealing with guys that anchored their defenses

    63-64 and 64-65 were two of BR's best years...here are his approximate TRB% and AST%

    57 - 22 / 8
    58 - 21 / 11
    59 - 19 / 10
    60 - 19 / 10
    61 - 19 / 9
    62 - 19 / 12
    63 - 19 / 12
    64 - 21 / 13
    65 - 21 / 15
    66 - 21 / 14
    67 - 21 / 17
    68 - 20 / 15
    69 - 19 / 14

    (bolded are his best 5 seasons in both respects, 6 for rebounding due to ties)

    some nitpicking since he was fairly consistent, but 1965 is his only season in which he was top 5 in all three of these categories; since it was the Celtics team during his run with the most wins (62), and it was his among his best playoff runs from a basic box score perspective (16.5/25.2/6.3 on 52.7% shooting in the playoffs (17.8/25.0 on 70.2% shooting in the Finals...I don't have all of his assist numbers but he had 6,10,4 in games 1,2,5 respectively, probably with solid blocks) I'm inclined to pick that season

    so I'm taking 1964-65 as Russell's best season, but I'm more than happy to listen to other opinions
    Last edited by fpliii; 07-13-2012 at 10:56 PM.

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