MJ has a perfect playoff record

[Riks]

There - you just said MJ's the goat - no one in history was the key player on that many title runs.

you're done.. take this L



Pippen and Grant were not good players as rookies in 1988 - you're telling outright lies here, as usual.

Rookie Pippen averaged 7.9 ppg in 20 minutes, while Grant averaged 8/6 in 22 minutes.. Those numbers are easily replaceable - they had little to do with the Bulls win totals that year.

The real key in 1988 was JORDAN'S IMPROVEMENT - he added GOAT defense to his league-leading scoring by garnering DPOY, and also league MVP.

Obviously, it was Jordan's growth into the GOAT two-way player and league MVP that made the Bulls better.



Grant was never a star - during his best years alongside Jordan (1991-1993), he averaged 13/9 in regular season and 11/8 in playoffs..

He was an ordinary, 11/8 play-finisher and a simple dunker.. He was never an all-star and only made ONE 2nd team all-defense while on the Bulls..

He never garnered an iota of defensive attention and no one thought for a nanosecond to let him create his own shot.. Half the league's 3rd options were better than him - we can go through and list them player for player and stat-for-stat - it's not even close - Grant was as ordinary as they come.



This is factually incorrect - if a power forward isn't an all-star OR all-defense, then they aren't elite.. MJ won all 6 rings without an all-star PF, and 4 of the 6 years he didn't have an all-defense PF.

Grant's ordinary play and stats were described above - compare him to fellow play-finisher and statistical peer, Tristan Thompson.

As for Rodman - during his time on the Bulls, he was 34-36 years old and he wasn't an all-star either (he hadn't made an all-star team since 1992) - nor did Rodman make the all-defense team in 1997 or 1998.. So similar to the first 3-peat, MJ won his second 3-peat without an all-star or all-defense caliber PF as well.

Rodman only averaged 4/8 in the 1997 playoffs and 1998 Finals.. He wasn't even a starter in the 1998 playoffs or Finals - Phil benched him for bad play... Rodman's last good year was 1996 - by 1997 and 1998, he was the same washed-up garbage he was for the 1999 Lakers, but no one noticed because the Bulls were 3-peating.



More lies - no player in history elevated his play more than Jordan did in 1991-1993 playoffs and Finals - the stats prove it:

Jordan averaged 34/6/7 during 1991-1993 playoffs, which was better than his RS averages of 31/6/6...

In the Finals, he elevated his play even more - he averaged 36/7/8 in 1991-1993 Finals.. And we all remember his destruction of top 5 player Magic Johnson in 1991 Finals..... the famous shrug and record 6 threes in 1992 Finals.... and his record 41/9/6 on 51% in 1993 Finals.

No one in history ever played anywhere NEAR this well while winning championships.. So stfu with your blatant lies about MJ didn't elevate his game - you couldn't be more wrong.

Furthermore, Jordan also averaged at least 10 ppg more than Pippen in every playoff series of their careers (except two when MJ averaged 7 ppg and 5 ppg more) - no one in history did so much more than their 2nd option.



That's nothing - they were 3-peat champions with 3-peat strategy, know-how and execution on both sides of the ball.. Imagine if the Warriors win the ring the next two years, giving them a 3-peat - if Curry retires in 2018, the Warriors easily win 55.

But ultimately, the regular season is exhibition season compared to the playoffs - so the Warriors would still lose in the playoffs, probably the 2nd Round, just like the Bulls did.

The Bulls were an ordinary 2nd Round team without Jordan, and a 3-peat dynasty with him - those are the facts.. If we wanted to verify Jordan's 3-peat to 2nd Round impact, we'd ask him to comeback and 3-peat again, while winning MVP's the whole way.... Done and Done.



[COLOR="darkred"]The list below shows every Bulls player that played more than 10 mpg in 1993 (excluding MJ) - this was MJ's supporting cast in 1993:[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].....................[/COLOR]PPG.......MPG

[COLOR="blue"]Pippen............18.6...... 38.6
Grant.............13.2....... 35.6
Armstrong.......12.3.......30.4[/COLOR]
Cartwright........5.6....... 19.9
S Williams........5.9........19.3
Paxson............ 4.2........17.5
R McCray......... 3.5........15.9
S King............. 5.4....... 13.9
W Perdue......... 4.7........13.9
T Tucker.......... 5.2........13.2
D Walker......... 2.6........13.1


The 1993 supporting cast only had 3 guys (Pippen/Grant/Armstrong) that played more than 20 mpg and averaged more than 6 ppg - the #4 thru #12 guys all played LESS than 20 mpg and averaged less than 6 ppg..

The Bulls relied on a mix of interchangeable stiffs who barely played and barely scored for the #4 thru #12 spots.. There isn't a single team in the league where the #4 thru #12 players are anywhere near this bad.



Jordan had less help than anyone he's compared to - Horace Grant was worse than half the league's 3rd options...

And Jordan's #4 thru #12 guys were literally the worst in the league (shown above).

So those are the facts.... Take this L (again)

Btw, during Jordan's 2nd three-peat (1996-1998), Pippen's playoff averages were 17/7/5 on 40%... That's a HORRIBLE 2nd option... Pippen was not a top ten 2nd option during 2nd three-peat.

So was this a copy and paste from past posts, or do you really waste your life like this writing and researching from scratch? Maybe you should use this time to help your mother by getting a job so she doesn't have to support you.

[Chadwin]

I don't buy for one second Chicago-Orlando in 95 wasn't at least considered 50/50. Sounds like another made up factoid by 3ball just to fellate his guy.

Whats interesting though is Jordan never losing as the overwhelming favorite. Like, he was never completely upset by an underdog a la Kobe to Detroit and LeBron to Dallas. One can definitely argue MJ won when he was supposed to.

Bulls ortg 109.5
Bulls drtg 104.3

Magic ortg 115.1
Magic drtg 107.8

Jordan was at 109/103

[LARRY BROWN]

he lost to Detroit twice 89 90

hes not perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pistions d destroyed him 2 years in a row!

[egokiller]

Once MJ molded Pippen into true playoff form, it was over. Rome wasn

[AirBonner]

What was MJ

[egokiller]

[QUOTE=AirBonner]What was MJ

[AirBonner]

His weakest was Lebron's toughest.

MJ never faced anything close to the 73 win warriors

[Turbo Slayer]

MJ never faced anything close to the 73 win warriors

[SouBeachTalents]

Nah, Bill Russell had the (nearly) perfect playoff record, 11 titles in 13 playoff runs

[Vino24]

Nah, Bill Russell had the (nearly) perfect playoff record, 11 titles in 13 playoff runs

facts

[3ball]

MJ never faced anything close to the 73 win warriors

He also never had a big 3

You can't compare teams from the big 3 era to teams in a 2-star era

It's about who overcame an actual talent deficit, and Lebron never did, except the 07' ECF.. but mj overcame much bigger talent deficits then that

MJ never faced anything close to the 73 win warriors

Everyone knows that his "not 6, not 7" Heat had the most talent in the league from 2011-2014, and his 2016 Cavs saw their 2nd option demolish the Warriors' 1st option...

In other words, Lebron had Big 3 superteams and can't complain about facing talent deficits - it's his opponents that can complain about facing talent deficits to his colluded, stacked deck teams

Ultimately, Lebron had his own Big 3's and only faced a talent deficit in 07', 15', and 18'... 17' is debatable and the goat is supposed to make up for differences anyway - the fact that he never did shows he isn't the goat..

the only talent deficit he overcame was the 2007 ECF, and MJ overcame much bigger talent deficits then that - let me know if you need me to specify with all the relevant stats and proof