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Old 08-21-2013, 01:11 PM   #45
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Default Re: Lebron's better than Kobe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonx20
Lebron stans, it is obvious you're only cheering for your so-called best player in the world when he's winning. Before that you were clearly Lakers and Celtics bandwagons but as of today you claim Lebron is better than Kobe and the best player in the world although he plays with 3 superstars in Wade, Bosh, and Allen.

False. I have been a fan of Lebron James since his rookie year in the NBA. I have never rooted for the Lakers or Celtics, in fact, I have actively rooted against the Lakers the entirety of my NBA fan lifespan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonx20
Your excuse is Kobe also had Gasol, Bynum, and Odom who were "no body" before playing with Kobe but deny the fact that Bosh, Wade, and Allen were franchise players before coming together. So if you would, please answer these following questions so I can be convinced that Lebron is really the best player in the world and better than Kobe.

Sure, this is true, but irrelevant. What actually matters is how the players performed while playing with Kobe and Lebron, not how they played before. Chris Bosh and Ray Allen were never franchise players, unless you call leading a mediocre team to an eighth seed and first round exit a condign indicator that a player is a "franchise player."

Let's look at the stats. During Kobe's 2009 title run these are the stats of Gasol and Odom:
Gasol 18.3/10/8/2.5 on .622 TS
Odom 12.3/9.1/1.8 on .587 TS

During Lebron's 2013 title run these are the stats of Wade and Bosh:
Wade 15.9/4.6/4.8 on .498
Bosh 12.1/7.3/1.5 on .524

From these stats it is clear that Gasol outplayed Wade and Odom outplayed Bosh in the playoffs, thus affirming that Kobe had a better supporting cast in the playoffs than Lebron. Not to mention virtually every existing metric states that Lebron is a better player than Kobe.

Allen was a role player for this title run and at age 37 he is no longer the same player he was.

Thus, Lebron performed better than Kobe individually, and at the team level. There is literally nothing Kobe, at present, has over Lebron other than your vague subjective judgement of Kobe having "instinct" or something. I'm sure that's worth a lot in your stunted mind, but to rational people, that is worth nothing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by masonx20
During the 2010 season the Cavs had the best record in the NBA, with good role players in Jamison, Varejao, Big Z and Mo Williams, plus a superstar in Shaq. These players are as good as the Lakers' if not then better since they got the best season record. As a matter of fact, they swept the Lakers 2-0 during the regular season. But when come playoffs, Lebron and the Cavs got eliminated by the Celtics.


Lebron fans argue Cavs lost because Lebron had bad teammates. Really? If that's the case then how did the Cavs become the team with the best season record? Did Lebron just heroically win all those regular season games by himself? And if that's the case then why couldn't this so-called hero beat the Celtics? What really happened was the Celtics knew Lebron was a passer, so they forced him to play one on one.

No one says Lebron has bad teamates. What they do say is that Lebron had incredibly weak supporting casts compared to the supporting casts most championship winners have. Lebron's best support on that 2010 team was Mo Williams, and his bottom level talent was bad as well. And while the team was successful, it was because it was built around Lebron's unique ability to literally carry a team in all aspects. Lebron would score majority of the points, he would create majority of his teammates opportunities, and he would grab a majority of the rebounds. The team was built to complement Lebron's ability to do everything. Lebron + spot up shooters + good defense was a viable strategy to destroy teams in the regular season, when teams don't commit much towards matchup strategy and are conserving energy. But in the playoffs, where teams are dialing in on your lineup and going all out, it is unreasonable to expect one good player and a team of complementary players to overcome teams with multiple stars.

And Mo Williams didn't even show up to the playoffs in 2010, further demonstrating the inadequacy of Lebron's surrounding cast.
Mo in regular season: 15.8/3.0/5.3 on .580 TS
Mo in playoffs: 14.4/3.1/5.4 on .534 TS

When you have a team that completely relies on you in the regular season and then plays even worse in the post season, there is no player in NBA history who is going to win a chip. Lebron could have played better, sure. But even when he played out of his mind he couldn't get this mediocre team to a championship (2009 ECF). This isn't a strike against Lebron unless it is a strike against every player to ever play the game, Kobe included. Why didn't Kobe win in 2004? That team was much more stacked than any Cavs team Lebron had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masonx20
What happened when you're considered the best player on the team but can't play one on one with your limited offense while your passes to teammates are eliminated by the Celtics? The pressure is on you and you choke forcing bad shots right? But if you have all star teammates like Wade, Bosh, or Allen when you're being locked down on D you can still pass them the ball and they can score, giving you an assist.

Wade, Bosh and Allen did not play like All Stars so this argument is invalidated. The notion that Lebron's offense is limited is absurd. He has a quick first step, is the best finisher in the NBA, has great handles, has a functional post game, and has a still streaky but at times great jumper.


Quote:
Originally Posted by masonx20
But as leader when you can't score you can't motivate and build confidence in your Cavs teammates but with the Heat it's different yours flaws are hidden while Wade, Bosh, and Allen cover them. In fact, you need your superstar teammates to be the 1st to step up so you can build your confidence. It's a shame how the media/league doesn't talk about this because it would decrease Lebron's fanbase leading to a decrease in sales right?

Wade, Bosh and Allen were not covering anything. They played like absolute shit for most of the playoffs. Look at Lebron in the 2009 ECF, this was probably one of the greatest series of all time and Lebron was playing with a shit team. Cavs still lost. Fact is no single player can carry a mediocre team.


Quote:
Originally Posted by masonx20
So let's talk about Kobe. What were the Nuggets doing to him during the 2009 NBA playoffs? The same thing the Celtics did to Lebron in 2010 playoffs. They tried to block passes to Kobe's teammates and have him play isolation ball. He killed the Nuggets with shots from every angle. Gasol wasn't even a factor and was being pushed around by Nene. So what makes Lebron better than Kobe? Someone please convince me.

Lebron is superior in every metric. He has a far, far greater Bball IQ, his brand of basketball is much more conducive to success, he is physically superior to Kobe in every aspect, he is a much better finisher at the rim, he is a much, much better playmaker, he is a better rebounder, (currently) he is much, much better defender than old man Kobe, Lebron even has a better jumpshot and 3 point shot than Kobe this season.

Lebron jumpshot/3point shot: .481 eFG/.397 FG
Kobe jumpshot/3point shot: .448 eFG/.324 FG

So, the fact that Kobe is literally worse than Lebron at everything despite his "superior skillset" should be convincing enough to any sane person.
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