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Old 05-05-2013, 09:49 PM   #429
2010splash
Now a Cavs fan again
 
Join Date: May 2010
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Default Re: Truth: LeBron James is already the greatest SF in NBA history

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Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Actually, Lebron's teams in 09 and 10 were as good or better than Duncan's in 03.

And...actually, Lebron choked his ass off in 11.
No, they were not. Robinson still provided veteran leadership and solid rim protection as a defender. Parker was better than anyone LeBron had in 2007. Poppovich is a million times the coach Mike Brown was. It was a relatively mediocre supporting cast compared to other championship teams, but it was not worse than the 2007 Cavs.

As for your second point, so what? Plenty of so-called ďlegendsĒ have done the same far more often than LeBron. Bird choked, Wilt choked, Kareem choked, Magic choked, Kobe choked, etc. Itís just one Finals. His future achievements will likely make the 2011 Finals an irrelevant footnote in his legacy.

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You can't have it both ways. You can't use things like titles and successes to rank players and then conveniently sweep the fact that Lebron lost the 11 finals, in the heart of his prime, with Bosh and Wade and a solid team around him against one of the weakest (in terms of talent) title teams in NBA history.

So no, it's not the "truth"...there is no evidence at all to suggest Duncan wouldn't have easily won in 2011 with the kind of help Lebron had. Hell, look what Duncan is doing now at his age.

Iím not having it both ways. LeBron underperformed in 2011. Again, so what? Itís one series and if he goes on to win 3-4 more titles, nobody will care because it wonít matter. Magic, Bird and Kobe choked their arses off as well. Far more often than LeBron did. LeBronís only blemish in his career is the 2011 Finals. And honestly, the stats were nowhere near as bad as Kobeís. At least he did not hoist up 25+ FGA and shoot below 40%.


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Lebron has a long long long way to go to match a guy like Duncan and his longevity and success.

Duncan has now led his team to what...14 straight 50 win seasons. Never been done before. 4 titles without an all nba teammate...never been done before.
Definitely not a long way to go. What a gross exaggeration. Weíre talking about a guy who has 4 MVPís in 5 seasons, which hasnít been accomplished since the 60ís. Duncan was never that good. MVPís are a testament to relative dominance, how far ahead of your peers you are. Duncan was only clearly ahead of his peers for two seasons and in all honestly was never the runaway, consensus #1 player in the league. There was always a legitimate argument for guys like Shaq, sometimes Kobe and even Garnett a few seasons. LeBron has been, hands down, the best player and most dominant player in the league since 2008. Thereís honestly no arguing this. His stats are so much better than anyoneís. This is not the case with Duncan.


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So please don't come on here and pretend like Lebron is clearly better than Duncan or Kobe if he wins a title this year. Especially given how stacked his team is and the fact that his main competition lost their 2nd best player.

Do you Lebron stans just expect everyone to ignore the 11 finals? The 10 collapse against the Celtics? Those are black marks that aren't just going away with 1 title on a historically stacked team...sorry.
Heís easily better than Kobe and I honestly see no argument for Duncan over him. His ďmain competitionĒ wouldnít have beat the Heat even if they had their second best player, so the point is moot.

The 2010 Celtics thing wasnít a collapse. We saw a player lose to a vastly superior all-around team while having subpar shooting series. If thatís considered a collapse, then Magic, Kareem, Bird, Duncan have had several collapses (if we define ďcollapseĒ as a series in which a player underperforms while losing to a more talented team).

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Lebron needs to win 3 titles before I move him ahead of Duncan. And this isn't a case of ring count. It's about the opportunities Lebron has had. This will be his 3rd year in a row with the best team...and that is likely to continue for at least 2 more years. So I need to see 3 titles in 5 years in order to put him even with ahead of Duncan.

And I'll tell you this. If the Spurs beat the Heat in the finals this year...Lebron will never catch Duncan. So again. calm yourself down and let it play out.

Not at all. I can just as easily say Duncan needs to win 2 more MVPís before I move him ahead of LeBron with 4 MVPís and 2 Finals MVPís. You are using titles as your main criteria. I use it as part of the equation when ranking players and also put titles into appropriate context. LeBron never had a legitimate championship team until 2011. Never. So if you include this season, thatís a grand total of 3 seasons LeBron has played where you could have reasonably expected him to win a title. Contrast this to Duncan, whoís played on a title contender for basically his entire career. And furthermore, LeBron winning 3 titles imo is a foregone conclusion if you count this year. That would mean only 1 more.
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