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Old 04-10-2013, 07:06 AM   #47
The Awakening
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Default Re: When its all said and done, Rondo will go down as the greatest pure PG in NBA history

Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Being a point guard is not a specific area. Its a position.

Thats like saying "defender" is all-there-is, as if the best perimeter defender or rim protector or shotblocker cant be discussed separately. There are even vertical and horizontal defenses. So many aspects per position or regardless of position. If you dont like to discuss about it, its fine - but to insult and demean others who do, isnt very mature or broad-minded.

Originally Posted by Kblaze8855

If I talk about Durants passing when the issue is his scoring...that is off the topic. If the issue is best point guard...ability to do all the things a point is asked to not.

So why do you admit such specific area as scoring but not passing? Any position has many aspects, and fans like to discuss them. Even scoring itself can be divided to the most clutch/efficient/post/mid-long range, etc etc.

And topic isnt about best point guard, you digress, its about the best pass-first PGs. You are free to create a thread about the best PG, this one isnt it.

Originally Posted by Kblaze8855

You dont stop being a point guard when you score any more than a shooting guard stops being one when off the ball.

The idea that being a point guard is what you do when looking to pass is the whole problem. Its flat out inaccurate. Most great points....have been good enough at scoring that them scoring..IS...running the offense.

Scoring and pass first mentality/players do exists, regardless if you like/acknowledge it or not. Its weird as an old fan you dont know about it. You are also unaware some players prefer to play defense and some offense, and its not always purely due to their abilities (or lack off)?

Originally Posted by Kblaze8855

You know that Isiah Thomas was putting up 14 assists a game at one point right? That Stockton, Oscar, and Magic are the only players(retired) who average more assists for their careers? That he had stretches where he had 20, 12, 15, 20, 19, 16, 17, 19, 18, 16, 12, 12, 24, 9, and 25 assists in consecutive games?

When he was asked to create shots for others...he did so at a rate that to that point...had never been done. When his team became more grind it out...defense first...playing through the post...multiple ball handlers...his assists dropped.

There are many variables you have to account, for some reason it seems you assume everyone have the same mentality and inclinations, same duties and situation on the team, and if someone differs - its purely ability based.

Let me point out some variables for you:

1) Mentality and preferences. Yes - everyone is different. Some like to pass, some to score, some all in between and likes women (or guys) after.

2) Different assignments. Lets say Jordan - he was a great PG when asked to, was this his style? No, he just did a good job regardless.

3) Different roster situation. If Magic would have played with prime Kareem and the likes, he most likely would be known as a pass-first PG now as well. Its a bit unfair to assume by default Stockton couldnt be as 1st scoring option. He never was put into such position, playing with monster like Malone.

Regardless what player prefers or not, most such level stars can adjust to situation. To dismiss Stockton's higher-volume scoring possibility (when he was actually good at it) is unfair, just falls to what-if category.

Originally Posted by Kblaze8855

If you think Magic had the ball as much as John Stockton I simply dont believe you are old enough to have watched him in his prime. I remember Stockton....well. He may have dribbled more than anyone in the history of the NBA. He had total control of the ball for years. And higher volume passing? Passing is NOT assists per game. Magic may well have passed more than Stockton because so many more of his passes were just....moving the ball. Stockton no doubt passed the ball more to people in position to score right away....but he dribbled more in doing it and passed no more overall if not less.

I started watching NBA because of Magic vs Bird rivalry, and was always rooting against Jazz (especially hated Malone's elbows). It doesnt preclude me from giving due respect, and Stockton was the best floor-general and passer than anyone else in NBA's history, including Magic (default GOAT PG to me, but not in specific areas). Thats expected, any position's GOAT wasnt the best at everything, there is always someone better in some area.

John was a better floor general than Magic IMO, and did it much more efficiently (FACT). Even time-outs at the end when its default coach time, Stockton often ran the plays instead and did the right decisions. You can agree or disagree with an eye-test, but you know I can back my opinion up with advanced stats. Magic never reached such highs (in this specific area), nor anyone else in NBA history. I remember calling Stockton a cyborg - cold-blooded with high-volume laser precision passes, he didnt looked human Never liked him (nor Isiah), but always respected his play.

Last edited by Harison : 04-10-2013 at 07:10 AM.
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