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Old 04-10-2013, 05:29 AM   #44
Titles are overrated
Kblaze8855's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Default Re: When its all said and done, Rondo will go down as the greatest pure PG in NBA history

When we speak about specific area (i.e. pass-first PG, or lets say scoring), we focus on topic at hand, not how good/bad players are at other areas. It seems you have a problem with a focus, and just want to discuss players as a whole. If lets say topic is "what a great scorer Durant is", you - "but his defense/rebounding/passing blah blah", and that would be off-topic.

Being a point guard is not a specific area. Its a position.

If I talk about Durants passing when the issue is his scoring...that is off the topic. If the issue is best point guard...ability to do all the things a point is asked to not.

You dont stop being a point guard when you score any more than a shooting guard stops being one when off the ball.

The idea that being a point guard is what you do when looking to pass is the whole problem. Its flat out inaccurate. Most great points....have been good enough at scoring that them scoring..IS...running the offense.


Pass or score-first isnt just ability based (although it sometimes is), but also mentality based. Stockton was an excellent shooter and slasher, yet he was looking to pass-first, not to score-first (a la Rose, Isiah, etc). Thats mentality. Some people are just wired this way.

You know that Isiah Thomas was putting up 14 assists a game at one point right? That Stockton, Oscar, and Magic are the only players(retired) who average more assists for their careers? That he had stretches where he had 20, 12, 15, 20, 19, 16, 17, 19, 18, 16, 12, 12, 24, 9, and 25 assists in consecutive games?

When he was asked to create shots for others...he did so at a rate that to that point...had never been done. When his team became more grind it out...defense first...playing through the post...multiple ball handlers...his assists dropped.

That is what being a point guard is. Doing what you are supposed to do....running your offense.

The idea that most of these guys are score first and less talented guys are pass first just by mentality is absurd. Isiah, Magic, Oscar, and so on...they are best for the team...first. If the team is best served by scoring they score. Passing? They pass. If Rondo had a choice and chooses to over pass to the point he hurts his offense the way he sometimes isnt being a more pure point.

Its being a worse point.

I also dont agree with "removing Magic from the discussion because hes so far and away the best." - looking from passing and floor-general perspective, Stockton in this area is better. Higher volume passing with less turnovers, less ball-domination, less fancy, but razor-sharp and to the point. I would take efficiency over style everyday.

If you think Magic had the ball as much as John Stockton I simply dont believe you are old enough to have watched him in his prime. I remember Stockton....well. He may have dribbled more than anyone in the history of the NBA. He had total control of the ball for years. And higher volume passing? Passing is NOT assists per game. Magic may well have passed more than Stockton because so many more of his passes were just....moving the ball. Stockton no doubt passed the ball more to people in position to score right away....but he dribbled more in doing it and passed no more overall if not less.

You are talking about numbers not basketball. Magic barely had the ball at times outside the break. Shooting more is not being more ball dominant. Plenty of times Michael Cooper and Byron scott had the ball with Magic elsewhere.

In his prime Stockton had the ball as much as anyone ever has. He was supposed to.
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