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Old 03-16-2013, 12:36 AM   #77
7-time NBA All-Star
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Default Re: Magic Johnson averaged a triple double over his 1st 4 playoff runs.

Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Kareem made a big impact defensively and it was a lot more negative than you claim. Big men get so much credit for defense and don't get enough criticism when their defense is distinctly average, mediocre, or barely above average. His defense was better in the playoffs and his BPG went up but he was solid, at best. I think I'm actually being a little kind. Magic's defense is much better than people give credit for. He wasn't usually guarding tiny PG's who would run around him all day. His team defense was very good and he forced a lot of turnovers, including getting a bunch of steals.

I wasn't claiming he was DPOY level in '82, but it's obvious from most '82 Laker games that he made a positive impact. He blocked and altered a ton of shots around the rim. His presence was definitely felt defensively. Magic has never been much of a defender, imo. Pretty good help defender, but he would gamble at times, and his roaming made him very vulnerable vs shooters. Of course, he had trouble with players who could score off the dribble as well.

The team went thru Magic. Nixon may have been the PG in the halfcourt but Magic created transition even back then and he was more a PG for that team than anyone. Magic outrebounded Kareem, completely. Kareem isn't Marc Gasol. He's not doing a bunch of boxing out and setting up teammates for rebounds. That said, even Gasol has to improve his rebounding...tho his wings don't rebound as much as he does. Magic had more RPG, more rebounds per minute, a higher rebounding percentage, more ORPG, more offensive rebounds per minute and even a higher offensive rebounding percentage. He played 1-3 and lived on the perimeter. He also outrebounded him in the playoffs.

The Lakers were Kareem's team until '87. Both Riley and Magic have said this. Though you could argue Magic was the better player a few years prior to that, though even in the mid 80's with Kareem in his late 30's, those 2 were pretty much 1.A/1.B.

Watching old playoff games, it was clear who the best player was. Magic was better and it was his team. Thru the playoffs and in the Finals. Really, outside of scoring, the only argument for Kareem was that he was taller.

I've seen those playoff games, and other than people going nuts over the triple double stats, it's confusing to me how people think Magic was already better. Even in the finals when Kareem's numbers were way down, he still looked like the finals MVP to me.

Magic's half court skill set just wasn't enough at that point for me to put him over Kareem. I've looked into this season extensively and Kareem was still pretty close to prime form. He had a bad midseason slump for about a month, but other than that, the biggest difference was Kareem's rebounding, and he was still average.

Kareem was much more important to the Laker defense than Magic, and the one Laker you had to double. He was a center, but he was also the guy they went to for big shots down the stretch. I've read quotes from players that year who said when Kareem was out, you could go inside on the Lakers, and how when he was not in the lineup, you could play the Lakers without double-teaming.

Absolutely not. I have enough respect for you to know I'm not going to change your opinion, just as you know you aren't going to change mine. But I know that I'm right on this one. Fact is that if the difference in a series is 82 Magic and 09 LeBron then I'm going to beat you because I took Magic. Absolutely. In fact, I might beat you badly.

Sure, if you have a top 2-3 player in Kareem, 2 additional all-stars in Norm Nixon and Jamaal Wilkes, Bob McAdoo who played like an all-star in the playoffs coming off the bench and one of the best role players of all-time in Michael Cooper.

What Lebron did for the '09 Cavs was pretty incredible.

If it was Magic from 87 on I'd kill you.

You not thinking it's remotely close is a good example of people not realizing just how historically dominant Lebron has become.
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