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Old 09-20-2012, 02:29 PM   #38
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Default Re: Better Player: Scottie Pippen or John Havlicek?

Originally Posted by D.J.
You lost all credibility when you called Pippen's career shittier.

How is it not? Where is Pippen's finals MVP? Where is Pippen's championship without Jordan?

Hondo won with Russell, who is Jordan's caliber. He also won with Dave Cowens. Pippen couldn't win with Olajuwon and Barkley or those stacked Blazers teams. He had prime Bob Sura like numbers on those Blazer teams, and you want to compare him to Havlicek?


He is the GOAT perimeter defender. That's not debatable.

You're stating your opinion as fact. Bring some evidence.
Pippen "shutting down" Grant Hill
Pippen "shutting down" Chris Mullin - take note of the match-ups pre-Indiana Pacers
Pippen "shutting down" Nique
Pippen "shutting down" Larry Bird
Pippen "shutting down" Glenn Robinson
Even Ceballos averaged over 20ppg per 36 minutes on Pippen

The only player I could find that Pippen actually limited was Glen Rice. WOW!

Because he had other responsibilities. He had to take an even larger role on D and had to set up for his teammates. 22 PPG considering he had larger responsibilities in other areas is pretty damn good. He was averaging just under 9 RPG, almost 6 APG, and 3 SPG. How many points did you expect from him, 30?

So he wasn't as well-rounded and dominant as Havlicek. Hondo could do it all. I guess Pippen couldn't. I would expect a player like Pippen, held in such high regard, would average at least 25ppg without MJ. He didn't come close.

Or the fact that Pippen played a large role in guys like Horace Grant and B.J. Armstrong having career years. Not to mention Armstrong was an All-Star, deservedly or not.

So it's not on those players being in their respective primes? Grant had basically the same stats with Penny and Shaq. If they played better it wasn't because of Pippen, it was because they had more opportunity to shine without Jordan around.

He did start shooting threes on a somewhat consistent basis until '95. And during the first 3-peat, he very seldom shot threes.

Obviously, you can't comprehend what I'm saying. Havlicek took some long jumpers, and they were not accredited as 3 pointers, because they didn't exist. They also didn't call ticky tack fouls in the 60's and 70's, meaning you could get fouled on jumpers and nothing would be called. The floor was also crammed due to a lack of spacing from having no 3 point line.

Bring Havlicek down to 36-37 MPG and we'll see how his output looks.

Why should he be penalized for being an ironman? Pippen was unable to play such large minutes, it was unheard of for a player to average 45 mpg in the 90's.
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